Debra Angilletta — Transforming Financial Chaos: The Hidden Profits Framework

In 3, 2, 1.

Welcome back to Becoming Preferred, the podcast designed to help you level up your game and become the best version of you.

If your income or revenue, personally or professionally, looks strong on paper, but your bank account at the end of the month tells a completely different story, you're definitely not alone.

Too many brilliant entrepreneurs and professionals find themselves trapped on a cash flow roller coaster, driving top line growth while quietly sacrificing their peace of mind, their sleep, and their freedom outside of work.

Because financial stress doesn't stay at the office.

When your finances are reactive and unpredictable, it bleeds into your personal life, robbing you of the energy you should be spending on your family, your health, and the things that truly matter.

Our guest today is a master at turning financial chaos into predictable momentum.

With over 30 years of finance experience, she is a powerhouse fractional CFO, business strategist, and the author of Hidden Profits.

She specializes in helping entrepreneurs uncover silent profit leaks, improve cash flow, and finally build the financial stability needed to pay themselves consistently and reclaim their lives.

Please join me for my powerful conversation with Deborah Angeletta.

Well, hi, Deborah.

Welcome to the program.

We're delighted to have you.

Hey, Michael, how are you?

So great to be here with you today.

Well, thanks so much.

Now, where are we speaking to you from today?

I am right outside of New York City.

So it is nice sunny today.

Of course, it's sunny after a wa.

Rainy weekend, right?

Just in time.

But the weather's nice here today.

Well, I'm excited about the topic.

I'm excited to talk about your book called Hidden Profits.

We're going to talk about that.

You have your own business.

You're a fractional cfo.

You work with all kinds of services and companies and businesses.

And I want to delve into that before we get into the, the fundamentals of that and how it can help our clients in their businesses or in their professional lives.

Let's go back to your Deborah's in high school, you're deciding what you want to be when you grow up.

Take us there.

Yeah.

So I could probably take it back even further, which really dictated my decisions in high school.

When I was a child, my, my favorite toy was the cash register.

Oh, so you were born is genetic then?

It was, I think I was programmed from birth somehow, some way, I don't know.

But, and funny enough, nobody was a business owner in my family, which was interesting.

So both my parents had had jobs and were employed.

And where I grew up, the state and the, and the hospital system and the education system were big employers in the area.

So people weren't even operating outside of that.

So.

But I can take it back to that.

And in high school, really.

Yeah, that's, that's really something.

And I think that theme continued in high school just because of the circumstances that were going on at the time.

And so honestly, when I was in high school, I wanted to make money and not just for the sake of making money.

It wasn't just about the money, which we'll probably talk a little bit more about.

But to me, for what was going on at the time, money equaled freedom.

That's really important.

Oh, we're on the same page.

I was saying, were your parents immigrants at all?

My parents weren't a couple generations back, but you know, back in, back in the 80s, I'm going to date myself.

Right.

It was one of those things where I think a lot of families struggled in this way.

And I remember.

So my parents were divorced and my parents got divorced when I was probably just the early teenage years.

And that's a really tough time, especially because you're trying to find yourself.

You're not quite an adult, you're not quite a kid, but you're also trying to navigate some waters.

And then all of a sudden, when you go from an upper middle class family to just barely middle class.

Right.

So you've got a single mom now.

And I also had a younger brother.

And the way that she had to make things work, our lives were really turned upside down.

So that's why I saw it from a perspective of, hey, if I can make sure I make it on my own before I take a partner on as a husband, and if I can create that freedom for myself, then I won't have to be in the situation that my mom was if anything was to ever happen.

Yeah, that's what clued me into that one.

My parents were immigrants from England and when they came over, they landed with a nickel.

They had jobs to come to, but they literally just had a nickel.

And my mom worked in a bank.

My dad was in the service, he was a musician as well, so.

And they always had two jobs.

I always had two jobs and they worked hard.

And so I saw that work ethic.

And my parents, we never went without.

We had what we needed.

We always had what we needed.

But then once I learned, hey, you know, 10, 11, 12 for boys that time it was paper routes.

So I remember getting a paper out and my guess is I'm not sure if you had a paper out or not, but you know, if you were a Boy, you probably would have in that time period or get your job or the lemonade stand or starting to earn money.

And once you earn that money, you realize, hey, you had the freedom to do things, you could always do something.

And so that stuck with me.

And you have that work ethic where you just work hard versus if it was just handed to you.

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't help our kids up or help them out a little bit, but it's a matter of teaching them the work ethic.

So you probably learned that from your mom.

Absolutely.

And yeah, because my mom, she had a full time job and did some odds and ends kind of things as well.

But I also saw that freedom.

I started to babysit.

So that was where I started to earn money.

And I was like, let me see if I can babysit more and get a job at the mall and do this and any, anything I could do to fill my time to make more money, that's what I did.

Yeah, well, that's good.

I think that's foundational and I think that's an important characteristic as well.

So people who.

I have the same value.

It's freedom for me and it took me a while to figure that out.

But I want to do what I want, I want.

And if I don't want to do that, I want to have the freedom not to choose to do that.

And I've made some financial mistakes.

We're going to talk about that as a business owner, I have and as a professional and we do.

So let's talk about the money in general, whether individuals and people.

As you work with organizations, you're also working with people and the people with that.

And you're looking at entrepreneurs and solopreneurs and people who are scaling businesses.

So you've got a good diverse track record of working with people with.

What's the mindset that you see where when you come across that mindset, you're going, I know I can help here.

There's an issue or a problem and are you seeing common mindset issues, if you will.

So I'll tell you, there's a.

It runs on the spectrum.

There's mindset issues that are actually positive, that actually helps fuel the success of the relationship.

And then there's the more challenging ones.

So I might share a bit of both with you here today, Michael.

But one of the first ones that I see is for the business owners that I work with.

They come to me because they don't settle for mediocre to be the best of the best.

And if they've got a challenge with money, maybe there's just some things that they don't know because it's.

Money is really funny in a way.

It's one of those things.

And even when it happens more.

So now I think there's more education around money.

It still could fill in some gaps, but much better than it was when we were younger.

Like, we had home economics, we learned how to write checks out of a checkbook, but we didn't really know or learn how to handle money, how to save, how to invest, none of that stuff.

So the people that just want to get really good at this get sick.

Sick of being the business owner, that they make good money, and at the end of the month they say, where did all my money go?

So they're just driven to, like, I know that there's a better system.

I know that there's a way to do this, and I want in.

Right.

So that's one of the positive mindsets I can.

That work really, really well.

No, it makes sense.

And I think what's interesting is you went through school and called.

We're not taught the things that we should learn on a personal and a professional level to run a business.

I mean, these are the most important things.

And America is that land of opportunity.

It's still got the American dream.

If you want to come and open a business, we.

Why don't we teach in our education systems?

Because you've seen that full spectrum financial accountability.

Pardon me.

Financial.

Understanding the financial issues.

Why don't.

What do you suppose that isn't taught?

You know, that's a really great question, Michael.

I think that when it comes to money, it's something that people feel like they're a math person or they're not a math person, and they think that's kind of where it starts.

And money isn't really about math.

It's more about energy, believe it or not.

And I know some people out there believe it, some people don't.

Yes.

And so I think that's where people get stopped, where they're like, I really need to be a math person.

And I hear this all the time from business owners.

They're like, ted, make sure you keep it.

Really just, you know, I don't want to see a spreadsheet.

I'm not a math person.

Please just keep it really simple.

And that's what we're able to do.

But I think that's where it starts.

So people are just like, oh, man, I can't do this.

Or I Don't want to deal with it, let somebody else deal with it.

So that's my perception of where it starts.

And once again, there just isn't a heavy emphasis on it.

There's other things that are emphasized more in school where they're trying to teach you a skill set so you can earn the money, but then they don't tell you what to do with it.

No, you're either.

In my day, it was either vocational.

You were math, science, you went on doctor, lawyer, engineer, you kind of had one path, or you went to a shop and you learned how to build things, fix things, or you went that route, or somebody told you you weren't good in math and which not necessarily accurate.

I like how you said it's an.

I believe it's an exchange of energy as well.

I said, I'm going to get your.

That's what real money is.

And it allows that freedom.

So when you understand that energy equation and then value and bringing value to the marketplace, I think it matters.

You talk a lot about helping business owners stop reacting to their numbers and start leading with them.

For the entrepreneur listening who dreads opening their profit and loss statement at the end of the month, what's the very first shift they need to make to go from financial anxiety to absolute confidence?

Well, I think having someone by their side to be able to explain it to them and give them the why behind why they want to know these numbers and show them the other side of it.

And I think that's really key.

I think that a lot of business owners have two resources in their business when it comes to finances.

Especially here in the small business realm, we typically have maybe a bookkeeper that helps us with our books and make sure everything is tidy, neat and tidy.

And from a compliance standpoint, the numbers are organized in our business.

And then we also have number two, typically a CPA or someone that prepares our taxes.

So those are the two financial partners we tend to have in business.

And a lot of times those are outsourced resources, which is completely fine on the small business level.

Typically don't have somebody in house that you're hiring for that.

But I think where the gap is is that these two people are what their function really is.

It's compliance, meaning that they just keep the numbers tidy and they keep your taxes filed and they keep you out of tax jail.

Right.

So it's all.

Everything nice and tidy.

But what's lacking here is someone else that can look at the numbers and, and say, hey, you want to know what I'm seeing something here.

Maybe we can use what's happened in the past to be able to look forward and say, how can we change some decisions in the business?

Where are the opportunities?

What can we shift?

And listen, business owners are steeped in their day to day, right.

A lot of times they don't have time to work on the business.

And once again, for those people who are like, ah, the numbers make me a little queasy, I don't blame you.

Right.

It gets complicated sometimes.

But I think having someone else with a set of eyes that can interpret what's going on with your business and partnering with someone like that, that's your best ally.

And helping you with the why you want to understand and showing you those opportunities.

So as a business owner, you have choice of how you want to drive your business forward versus just being in the default mode of just seeing.

Let's see what happens.

Well, and I know you talk about the, you know, you've talked about accounting is kind of that rear view mirror.

So we're looking at what's already happened.

And it's not fun.

I've already been there, done that.

But to lead, I know you talk about treating it as the financials, as a windshield, you know, how are we moving from static bookkeeping to active cash flow forecasting?

How can we project our numbers a quarter out into the future?

And that's when I think the anxiety vanishes, disappears.

Because you, you can see the obstacles before you even hit them.

They're kind of, you know, deer in the headlight.

You see that ahead of you.

So it's interesting.

Is there a right time for a sale?

Because you know, small business owners, they get into business, they start and then it's always that first hire, then it's the next hire.

When's the right time?

What should I be looking for in our businesses for a progressive CEO that can help us lead with the numbers, not just provide the financial rear view mirror for us, if you are, or the compliance numbers.

I mean, ideally, when you're starting in business, it's always great to have somebody alongside you with your business plan and help you move forward.

A lot of times that's not realistic.

Totally get it.

So what I would say is, yes, start making money.

And once you start making money, that's when you definitely want to have somebody come in and start looking at things with you.

Because a funny phenomenon happens is as you make more money, it's kind of like this thing, this little graph, just picture a graph, right thing, money goes up, right?

But guess what happens in tandem to revenue going up?

Expenses.

Yeah, expenses go up at the same rate and same level.

And so it.

And that's something that happens all the time in business.

And it doesn't matter whether you're just starting out or you're a seasoned business owner.

It happens at different points in time in our business, as we make more money, same thing happens until you get your eyes on it.

You're like, oh, now this is where this financial planning comes in.

So that's really the point.

Start making money.

Expenses keep going up.

You don't know where your money's going.

That's the time.

That's the red flag and the red light saying, oh, make sure you're looking at this.

There's opportunity here.

I think this happens on a personal level as well.

You make.

Say you make your $100,000 a year, you're spending 110.

If you're in 50, you're spending 60.

If you spend 200, it goes up.

The expenses go up, even on a personal level.

So I don't think there's really much of a difference.

I personally believe, and I know you do as well, that our own personal cfo, just for our own personal business and looking at the principles are the same, we can look at, here's what I've done, here's how I've tracked it.

Where do I want to go in the future?

How do I plan for my future?

And a lot of people need that windshield.

I saw one stat that showed something like 70% of the population only has about $75,000 in their retirement accounts.

And it's like, that's just.

That's just bad planning because it doesn't take much.

It's knowing where your numbers are, knowing where the bills are.

They don't have five $600 for an emergency.

Well, we need to own that.

If that's you, we need to own that, and you can turn everything around.

We start to look at things a little bit and going, hey, and I know things are going up.

Costs are going up constantly.

So we have to monitor those things.

So I think personally and professionally, I think it's personal.

CFO yourself, your principles are still the same.

So let's talk about those hidden profits or the hidden money even within our personal and professional lives.

The title of your book is Hidden Profits.

In your experience working with growing companies, where are those profits usually hiding?

What are the top one or two blind spots that entrepreneurs completely miss?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

And so where there's a lot of places you could go with that.

But the one place I always start with clients is looking at their profit and loss statements, but more specifically, not so much the revenue.

Most of the time my clients have really good revenue, but it's a matter of where's the money going?

They don't know where it is.

So I'm like, you know what I'm gonna tell you.

So I do a deep dive into their expenses and looking at that.

So let's look at a couple of expense areas where money really gets caught up and also affects the business owner.

So you kind of have to think about it like a thief in the night.

That thief is coming in 3 o' clock in the morning, reaching into your pocket, taking your money and running off with it.

Because that's exactly what's happening in your business.

So one of the big places that I see, money leaks.

Let's talk about money leaks.

This is money that doesn't have a chance to come back to you in your business.

It's just purely out the window.

SaaS products.

Now, SaaS products can be great, right?

We're talking about AI, automation and all of that.

That's great.

Yes, we want to be investing in that, but here's where it gets caught up when we invest in some higher level products.

What gets really costly is that when we start buying multiple seats in a product.

And I see this all the time and that's why I'm giving you the inside scoop of where I see and I can capture a lot of money.

First of all, SaaS products that you may not longer pay, may no longer be using.

So it's kind of like legacy products that you just have around.

But guess what, you haven't used in two years.

So why do you have it?

Let's make sure we get rid of that, right?

We only want to invest in things that have an opportunity to come back and serve our business.

So that's a big thing.

So as I was saying, these heavy SaaS products, they're great.

But once you start buying multiple seats, just say you have some turnover in your company.

Guess what?

If you're not watching, you're paying for some old seats for people that used to be with the company that aren't there anymore.

So that racks up a lot of money.

All those zombie expenses.

Yes, there is that.

Microsoft, they have some funky expenses that are always hidden, right?

Our good friends at Google, same thing.

A lot of hidden stuff going on there.

So.

So really I like to revisit the SaaS subscriptions, make sure we're using everything in the business to the ability that we can.

And sometimes there's a way to negotiate some rates which most people don't know.

But since I see this all the time, I'm like, you want it?

You could do better on that product.

Let's have a phone call.

So it's, it's a little bit of horse training, but it's good, it works in the end.

You say that.

I've actually done that too.

I've gone in and said, hey, we'd love to stay with your product, but is there.

Well, we, they, they want an excuse to keep that monthly recurring revenue so they don't want to hurt that.

We actually just went through a major negotiation with a developer and we cut it in half and.

But we gave them a guaranteed minimum.

Yes.

In other words, we said, if you can do this, we can do this.

And it was.

Well, that was the reverse of that.

But, but bottom line, we cut that expense in half just by looking at it.

So it's taking a look at that and identifying that that makes sense.

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And now back to my conversation with Deborah Angeletta.

The other area that I know you've talked about is business owners often over deliver and keep clients happy without charging for that extra value.

In other words, we get things.

Unpack that one a little bit for us.

Yeah, so what I always like to say is make sure you're revisiting your rates and whatever you're charging clients every six months.

And here's why?

And I'm sure everybody's feeling this.

You know, you're getting notices with your vendors that are increasing rates.

So if they're increasing rates on means that your margins are probably getting smaller.

So you have to do the same thing and you have to really look at.

It's not so much what it is that you're charging, but what is the value that you're delivering, what is your audience want, what your clients want more of and maybe less of.

So it's always good to keep in touch with your current clients, seeing what's working, what's not working, doing more of what works versus what doesn't work.

Take that out, and then you can go ahead and reprice and package as well.

I always like to tell people, people get nervous about this, but once again, you have to make sure that money coming in is the right level for you and you're not shrinking what you're keeping because of other operating expenses increasing.

So I think people make this a bigger deal than it needs to because it's happening across the board.

I always say, make sure you're looking at those numbers and if it's a modest increase for your clients or maybe increase for your new clients, right?

So you can go ahead and put that stop in and be like, okay, my old clients aren't going to get the increase, but here's what I'm going to do and go forward with new clients.

But with old clients, I find that if there's a maybe 2 or 3% increase, it's really, if you don't make it a big deal, they don't make it a big deal.

And that can really increase your revenues just by making that one little tweak.

I see it all the time.

Well, I look at margin.

I've always been a margin guy, and I remember we teach our clients when you salespeople are notorious for dropping the margin pants, and it's like, let's say you have a million dollars, you're doing a business, and let's say your cost of operations are $900,000.

By simply just improving your margin 10%, you're getting another hundred thousand without building or selling or distributing another widget.

So the key is protect those margins.

I'm curious about, you know, one of the areas of which I've always believed in.

And we do it ourselves.

So we practice this.

What we preach is we create three models or three pricing models.

So let's call it good, better, best.

But for businesses where it's, I call it the Starbucks model, tall, grande, Vente, Right, whatever.

It works.

And I just want a tall.

I want a grande or I want a Vente.

If you go to Apple, it's you buy 256, 512, one gig.

There's always everything's offered in three.

Madison Avenue, where you live, spends a billion dollars a year teaching the client to buy that way.

So why don't we do it that way?

And what I find is that's what serves as a market barometer.

So, for instance, I'll do a proposal because a lot of people guess and a lot of people here have their own businesses.

They do a proposal and they guess and they rack their brain.

They get anxiety over what should I price this at?

And they don't.

They need the money, they need the business.

But if I'm too high, I'm going to lose it.

And then what I can tell them is, and I want your perspective on this, is if the client says yes to you on your first proposal, and you're only doing one, you just left money on the table, you just left margin, and you just left profit on the table.

All right?

By preparing three solutions.

Hey, here's your gotta have, here's what's nice to have, and here's the full meal deal.

Your call.

All three are great and valuable and will work for you.

Your choice, you leave it up to that individual, and then that's your market barometer.

Does that work in your mind?

It absolutely does.

And Michael, you're the expert in this area, right?

When it comes to sales.

Absolutely.

And I believe so on this end, we call it the Goldilocks pricing.

Right, but not too hot, not to cold, just right.

Same thing, same concept.

And what I think I approach it a little differently.

I typically put the creme de la creme at the bottom, and that seems to probably be a little bigger for bigger companies.

Right.

Everybody usually winds up in the middle, but I always like.

And listen, you also have to look at yourself like.

I like to look at myself like as a physician, but not just a generalist.

Right.

I want to look at myself as a specialist.

So if I say, what is it that I would charge people?

I want to make sure I look at everything holistically and really kind of write this prescription like a doctor.

It's got to make sense.

If I'm going to say, hey, I would suggest you go in at this middle level, then I'm going to have some data to back that up for everything that they need and why that would correspond.

And so I never go below the middle I only have that other amount ready to go because it's my downsell.

So.

But once again, you know what, everybody does it differently.

But that's just something that I found.

And to tell you the truth, if you price it right and you go ahead and make sure you're pairing value with whatever it is at level that you want to be charging them, and that makes sense for both of you as long as you're pairing that value with it.

It most time clients say yes, they trust you, come from that know, like trust factor.

They're going to trust what you say and to tell you the truth, within 30 days, they're going to know if you're worth it or not anyway.

And you said the magic words has to make sense.

If it doesn't make sense, they're going to know it, you know it.

So if it makes sense to you and you've expressed it well, laid it out well, ask the right questions, it should make sense to your client as well.

I guess that.

Let's talk about the fractional CFO advantage.

Many business owners know they need financial help, but they're not sure whether they need a bookkeeper, a CPA, or a fractional cfo.

So how do you define the distinct role of a fractional cfo and at what inflection point should a founder make that investment?

Yeah, so really a fractional CFO brings something that's a little different than the bookkeeper and the cpa, and as I had said a little bit earlier, is that these two functions are really about compliance.

It's just keeping everything neat and tidy.

But it really doesn't mean much to the business owner.

Now, probably you as a business owner, if you have either one of those people in your business, you're getting reports every month.

And reports are great, aren't they?

Love them, love them.

So I always tell, and it's so funny because I love, I work with multiple bookkeepers and accountants.

They're like, yes, I do this.

And they get so excited that what they do and they generate the reports and I say, God love you.

Yes, absolutely.

But here's the thing.

They're not reading your report at all.

No.

At all.

I'm sorry to break it to you.

Exactly.

So to tell you the truth, truth, I mean, they're doing the right thing, but the missing piece is strategy.

And that's what I hear from business owners all the time.

And honestly, Michael, that's how I wound up writing the book.

I wound up going out and interviewing 100 business owners.

And what came out the other end, I was so surprised.

And what they talked about is I really asked, what is it that you love that your accountant does for you and what is it that you wish they did more of?

They said, I love that they keep everything in order.

They give me reports.

But the one thing that I wish they did more of was give me some strategic advice.

What do I do with these numbers?

I don't know what to do with them.

So really that's where the fractional CFO sits.

So I sit between these two and I'm working with them all the time.

And honestly, sometimes I'm also translating something that maybe the CPA wants to kind of make sure that the business owner understands.

But sometimes, listen, I love my CPA as the big brain.

I want him to be the big brain coming up with the strategies for me and everything else.

Else.

But sometimes what they're talking about, the business owner doesn't understand.

And I get it, I get it.

So sometimes I have to translate that as well to be like, all right, here's what's going on.

Here's what we want to do.

Here's how you action this.

And this is the data.

You want to get your CPA so you can get that result of maybe saving some more on taxes, putting more money in your pocket.

But sometimes there's a little translation amiss going on.

Yeah, you don't see the insights.

They're not known for their insights.

I've never met a cpa.

Even our own cpa, they keep us in compliance.

We get those data.

But how should we be investing?

What's the right direction?

What are our most profitable SKUs?

What's our best products?

What about.

We don't.

We just get the total numbers.

Like I say, it's a rear view mirror.

And I think companies, the, I think the benefit of a fractional CFO is it's a nice next step because you're instead of jumping to a 200k plus year professional, all right, you're bringing in somebody who's going to come in for the right amount of time for your business and you get to rent a 200,000 plus year CFO to help you with your business and go to the next level.

I'm assuming there's an roi.

Can you always.

There must be a demonstration.

Talk about that.

Talk about.

Because to me, I'm, every time, like you said, a SaaS product, there's an ROI to it.

We use AI tools because I, and there was an ROI to it.

I was able to cut some job functions that were costing us or we were able to analyze things different and reduce costs.

So I'm still spending money, but I'm spending less money.

And every year it seems like we're able to do that in our overhead.

How does a CFO or fractional CFO justify them?

So talk about that ROI and what are, what's possible.

Sure.

And it all depends on what the business owner is looking for.

Right.

So maybe they're looking to hire, maybe they're looking to expand or grow or just going back to the original, like, where's my money going?

Right.

And I just want to make sure that, you know what, what's coming at the top line is just not, not siphoning down to the bottom line, like there's nothing left.

So it depends on the outcomes that they want.

But then also what we're able to do is be able to go in and one of these things that we do that's complimentary, we do go in and look at the books.

We put an NDA in place and we'll take a little bit of a look for you just to see what's going on.

And that's the one thing I can tell you myself and most CFOs, we don't want to go ahead and make an offer to anybody if we can't move the needle for you.

And I have no interest in becoming a light item expense.

I want to be a profit center for you.

And just because we've looked at so many financials and worked with so many companies, I'm able to take the information I gleaned from the business owner as well as the financials and say, yes, I can help you, and here's why.

And looking at those opportunities and just those small tweaks that we know how to make, but the business owner may not necessarily know how to do.

And we can do it typically rather quickly, like I said in the book, 90 days.

So anywhere from 90 days to six months.

Months.

It's pretty quick.

And so why?

Because we see it and we do it all day long.

Have you got a, without naming a company or a client, have you got a transformational story or two where this is the business, the maybe the industry.

We went in our 60, 90 days, 120 days, and here was our outcome and here's the kind of dollars that were found or what we were able to value, we were able to create?

Yeah, absolutely.

We worked with Jennifer.

And that's actually in, in my book.

It's one of the chapters, the book that we shaped around this, this case study.

And so is she's an attorney, she's a partner in a practice, but she.

What she also did is she opened up a title insurance company.

So she does a lot of closings and she's in a major metropolitan area.

So she was one of those high achievers.

She's like, deb, I know I needed to find you.

I know I'm making good money.

This is a business that I know I can just make work better, but I can't figure it out on my own.

Can you help me?

So I wound up looking at.

I'm like, oh, my gosh, we can do so much with this, right?

So after I looked over there, I was like, jennifer, absolutely.

Let's see.

Let's go ahead and start.

So what we wound up doing is we pivoted and so she basically had very, very little profits to make.

Oh, gosh, how much?

I think we 10xed her profits in within 6 months it took.

So there's just a lot of every single thing that I talk about in the book.

We employed all of those strategies to be able to do that.

From looking at all the SaaS products, looking at her staffing, and seeing where she was over overstepped.

That's a big one we didn't talk about.

So we were able to rearrange some things.

On that end, she was able to renegotiate with some vendors.

That was big for her because there's a lot of fees in the title insurance business.

And because she gives business to certain people a lot, she was able to say, huh, you want to know what?

Let's talk about this relationship and how we're going to move it forward.

So she was willing to take the steps, go out on a limb on a couple of those items.

And so she's able to now make sure she's paying herself out of the business.

She was paying everybody else but herself.

She wound up 10xing her profits and then reducing her expenses by about half.

So I get on the phone with her every month because we do a monthly check in, make sure everything's on track.

And I say to her, I say, jennifer, you know how jealous I am of you?

She says, why?

I said, because you've got one big, repeatable, boring, profitable business.

And I love it.

Yeah, she does, too.

She does, too.

And that's.

I think we all have blind spots.

We all do.

You and I both do.

As professionals even.

I'm assuming you probably have a coach, too.

Yes.

And because we need it, we all need those and so it's kind of like having that financial coach for your business.

In hidden profits, you break down a framework for creating predictable momentum, which I thought was interesting for an entrepreneur trying to break out of the cash flow roller coaster or where one month's a windfall, the next month's a drought.

What are the structural pillars of a predictable financial model?

Yeah, it's a great question.

So, you know, it is looking at your numbers, and I like to take a time frame of three months.

Right.

It's typically a quarter.

And so it really gives you a good snapshot of what's happening in the business and really diving deep into what are those revenues look like, what do those expenses look like, looking at staffing and any of those big boulders.

Right.

Any of those big things that's affecting the business or what's going to be happening in the next six months.

So we take a combination of all of that and we say, all right, what is the business trying to tell us?

What's the story?

It's presenting right now as it is.

And then really asking the business owner.

And I can see in the financials, because I want to understand the perception versus reality.

So I asked the business owner, I say, what would you say the number one constraint in your business is right now?

And the reason why I asked that question is because I want to see what is it in their eyes.

Because the financials might be saying something different.

But here's the rub.

If I try to solve the thing that I see, it's not as important to the business owner.

I have to make sure I'm solving the problem that they see first before I can go here.

And that's where they're probably all connected.

To in a holistic way as well.

Yes, the hip bones connected to the.

And right.

Yeah, I'll be dating myself with that.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I'm right there with you.

One of the areas that I struggle with, and I talked to other entrepreneurs as well and solopreneurs and people building business businesses.

And I know you can address this as our cac, our customer Acquisition costs relative to lifetime value.

So it's having enough money how to value.

Is this a good customer for me or a bad customer for me?

So, for instance, as a speaker, we have a fee that we get.

We charge for speaker, and you do too.

And say we're using an agent.

The agents are going to take a percentage of that, and that has to be factored into it.

That kind of gives you a number that you could kind of work with.

So if you can lower your cost of acquisition, might be a merchant cert, might be an online business.

How do you, what do you see when you're working with your clients from, you know, acquisition costs?

You probably see them all over the map versus the actual lifetime value.

How should we be looking at those and the relationship between those two?

So what's really funny is I'm going to tell you this and answer this very simply.

They're not looking at either.

So I think the first step is make sure you're looking at it right.

And a lot of people don't even understand what those two numbers mean.

Like CAC is the customer acquisition cost and LTV lifetime value of the client.

And most people don't go there.

Why?

Because they weren't ever taught to do so, especially if they've never owned a business before.

So really it starts out with what is this?

Why is it important?

And let's look at the reports that we need to look at in order to gain what is the knowledge we can see with regards to this, this and man, it sheds so much light.

So looking at it from that perspective is just starting out and making sure you're understanding what it is and start to look at it, look at it with someone else because you're, it's very hard to get in the beginning.

But when you start tweaking those two numbers, that's where the magic happens.

Because business owners, here's the great thing, business owners have that gut feel that something's not right.

They can't put their finger on it.

So what they wind up doing is they start tweaking this or fixing that.

So start doing a lot of things all over the place.

But once again you're backing into these certain metrics that you can look at.

What does it cost to acquire a customer?

And if we just made one small tweak, could we just.

It's kind of like a domino effect.

Can we affect everything else from then on?

And then that affects, can we keep a customer at what's the length of time we can keep a customer.

So now we're looking at the lifetime value is what is the value of this one customer?

How do we get more of them versus just, I call them the one hit wonders, right, that just come in and then bounce out.

Come in and just bounce out.

How can we keep them longer?

And what is it that we need to do that?

But yeah, just looking at those metrics and have somebody look at them with you, because if you're new to it or if you've never done it before or if you have your business changes.

So you always want to have a second set of eyes on that.

Yeah, that one was tough for me too, even on a personal level.

And it's embarrassing that it took me so long to figure that one out.

I paid 25% to agents, typically for speaking engagement.

And that's how they, this is how they make their.

And you and I have talked about this and I'm thinking beforehand, if you told me, hey, it costs $300 to get a good lead or a good.

I'm going, that's a bargain.

And so different.

I have clients who are willing to pay 3, 4, $500 just for one good lead.

I think why would you pay so much?

That's expensive.

Not when the acquisition cost or the lifetime value.

So I think as you say, if your revenue resets to zero on the 1st of every month, you don't have a scalable business.

You just have a high stress job.

Right.

So now you know, well said.

Let's talk about time systems and the six figure schedule, because I think there's financial health is connected to operational capacity.

You've also written the six figure schedule, which I thought was really interesting.

So how does an entrepreneur's daily calendar directly impact their profit margins?

And what is the hidden financial tax of a disorganized schedule schedule?

That's a great one.

And you know what, seriously, Tony Robbins talks a lot about this.

And I know the way he schedules his life, obviously very extreme, right?

And it works.

But I always like to say the money's in your time, right?

And as you, as you get older, you want to make sure.

Like when we were talking about back in high school, like I worked 50,000 jobs to make the money.

And you know, that's what we do when we're younger, right?

We're just trying to make the money and we're not doing it very smartly.

We're just doing it just to do it because that's all.

We don't have the skill set yet.

But as you get older, you get skills.

You want to really manage your time, right?

And your time management really converts to how much money you can make.

So I like to look at this especially with my consultants and I say, okay, if you're doing one on one work, let's look at the calendar.

How many people could you possibly see?

So if you got your marketing so dialed in, how many people could you possibly see?

How much money could you possibly make every month?

And it's really amazing because then you can see you get capped at a certain point in time because there's only so much capacity.

So when we're talking about the six figure schedule, I do encourage people to just start putting together some sort of a calendar of the times you're going to see clients, the times you're going to do sales and marketing, the times you're going to do admin work and the times you're going to take care of yourself.

So it's really those four areas.

But how do you make that all work?

And quite frankly, you just got to start somewhere.

You start with the first iteration of what your ideal week will look like and making sure all those client times are going to add up to, to start right to what you, what your goals are as far as the revenue you want to be making every month.

And then we can scale from there and start managing time better so you can make more money.

Well, it's interesting to say I love how you think I say the same every, every month I look at what's the perfect week and I try and redesign it and it moves.

It doesn't move as much anymore because I kind of know how that works.

Works.

Mondays are production day.

That's where we do all our podcast interviews, we do all our content.

Because I'm really not customer focused on Monday.

I just had a good weekend.

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

That's where a lot of our sales activities and revenue generation and revenue enablement occur.

Right?

And then Fridays, you know, I'm a papa these days and so Nana Papa, we spend our time with our grandchildren on Fridays and that's been.

And it's challenging.

Sometimes I need the Friday to do other work.

But I and strict to that.

And then weekends we use that for rejuvenation and cleanup projects.

Stuff that we're not dealing with clients so so we can rejuvenate.

So I think I love that.

And to treat your schedule like an asset because it really is an asset, we've got to look out and self care.

I think that becomes important exercise, take the time.

Because if you build something and you're not there to enjoy it, what, what difference does it make?

Boy, time moves fast when we're chatting.

If our listeners take away just one financial filter or question that they should ask themselves before making any major business investment or hiring decision this week, what should that question be?

There's so many good ones.

Let me choose one.

If I was to design things in an ideal manner, what would my life and my business look like?

And it's simple, but it's actually hard to put pen to paper with that one.

Yeah.

But when you do and you take the time when you've got no disturbances, people come in, maybe have some little ones or grandchildren that are coming in and out.

Right.

Or something like that up.

But there's so many disruptions we have in our lives.

If you can just take time and just to think and write that down and what that would look like, it's kind of scary.

But once you do, wow, that, that's the one that gets me all the time.

And I have to bring myself back to that one all the time.

And I say that because when I do it, whoa, that lights me on fire.

Well, that's exciting.

I like to ask this of our guests every once in a while if.

And this time you get to brag here, Deborah.

So if you have a superpower, and I think we kind of know what it is, but maybe something the our audience doesn't know, what would you say?

Your superpowers, what are.

You know what?

I'm really good at this.

Yeah.

I think I'm really good at finding money for people.

And there are so many different places to find it.

And once again, why is it that we're doing that?

It's not just for the sake of having money.

It's once again to be able to create freedom.

Whether it's freedom to do what you want in life, whether it's money to, to buy back your time.

Right.

Or to contribute to bigger causes.

Maybe there's a foundation.

My girlfriend just started a non profit.

I'm so proud of her.

But because she has the money to do so.

So having the money is able to create more opportunities for you.

So that's what I would say.

That's a great superpower and I rings true.

If you were to have an Achilles Hill Kryptonite, what would yours be?

Mine, for me, it's organization.

I have to have great people.

I've got great 30,000 foot perspectives, but I gotta have people look after the details for me.

So that's things.

So if we had an area that if you're okay sharing, what's that Achilles, what's the thing you struggle with?

Oh, I struggle sometimes.

And here's what I struggle with, honestly.

So in your business you're trained to scale things, right?

To make sure that you're.

If people want to talk to you, you're going through and you're.

You have this questionnaire and you only you make sure that you're talking to the right people and to tell you the truth.

I've always struggled with with not talking to everybody.

So sometimes I blow up my time because I schedule too many people.

But I like to talk to everybody because I like to understand, because even if I'm not able to work with them, I feel that it's my give.

So I want to make sure that I'm talking with people and I can give them one nugget that they can go ahead and run with and have success.

That's great.

I'm happy as a clam at high tide.

So I think that's probably one of the things I have to work with is especially with my team.

They're like, deb, you're scheduled out a month.

And I'm like, I know, but I want to talk to this person.

So I have a little problem with my time sometimes because I just want to talk to everybody.

So.

But that's probably one of the things that I am challenged.

Thanks.

And that's always fun.

We're not perfect.

We're all working.

Not perfect at all.

And we just do it.

Deborah, thank you for bringing so much clarity to a topic that keeps many founders and business professionals awake at night.

Your book Hidden Profits is an incredible roadmap for this.

Where can the audience go to connect with you, grab your free resources and take control of their financial destiny?

Yeah, it's great.

You can find it@findmyhiddenprofits.com awesome.

Stop chasing cash.

Get predictable revenue in 90 days.

Deborah Angeletta will have all that information.

Your contact.

I know they can reach out to you for consults and see if that's a nice fit for you.

Deborah, thanks so much for sharing your insights and lots of value bombs in there and for being our guest today.

Thanks so much.

Michael, as you're listening to this episode, what is one idea that you've heard that's caught your attention and why does it matter so much to you?

And who is one person you can share that with?

Either sharing this episode or just sharing that insight that occurred to you while you were listening?

Perhaps it is if your revenue resets to zero on the 1st of every month, you don't have a scalable business, you just have a high stress job.

Or maybe it's that shifting from reactive bookkeeping to forward looking cash flow forecasting gives you the windshield view needed to anticipate obstacles and lead your business with confidence.

Thank you for listening, for learning, and for investing in yourself so that you can become the best version of you.

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Goodbye.