Courtney Ramsey - Lead with Influence...Not Just Authority

In 3, 2, 1.

Welcome back to Becoming Preferred, the podcast where we equip you to lead with influence, not just authority.

If you're an entrepreneur or business professional whose growth is stalled by employee turnover, poor communication, or the sheer struggle of transitioning from a high performing doer to an effective leader, then you're going to enjoy this episode.

Today we are happy to welcome Courtney Ramsey, a renowned leadership development expert, expert speaker, and consultant who has spent two decades transforming companies.

Courtney's mission is simple.

To stop the bleeding caused by low engagement and high turnover by giving leaders the concrete communication and people skills they desperately need.

She doesn't just talk theory.

She delivers tangible behavioral shifts that save companies millions.

Get ready to learn how to master the art of tough feedback.

Delegate strategically and truly lead the team that's destined to become your dream team.

Join me now for my conversation with Courtney Ramsey.

Well, hey, Courtney, welcome to the program.

We're delighted to have you.

Thank you so much.

So happy to be here.

Oh, me too.

I am excited.

We had you on the calendar earlier in the year and I know your travel schedule and speaking schedule.

We had to make some adjustments.

So we are delighted to have you here.

Thank you for making time for us.

And where are we speaking to you from today?

Where's home?

I am located in Dallas, Texas.

So right there in the middle.

Yeah.

Good spot.

I used to live there myself.

We're chatting about that earlier.

Good sports.

Team town.

So lots of good sports.

It can be.

Yeah.

Very attributed here.

Right.

Texas has got its own economy.

I remember in 08 and 09 when we had the financial meltdown.

Yes.

It's like Texas didn't even know there was one.

It was like it's its own economy.

You could work just in Texas and it's its own country.

It's true.

And I think a lot of Texans like to think of it that way.

We're very independent, if you will.

So.

So.

Well, it goes with the territory.

Now we're going to talk about leadership and all things around leadership and what that looks like in today's world and how we can make ourselves more effective because the world's changing and the market conditions are changing and leadership styles are changing as well.

And I know you have a fresh approach to that.

Let's talk to listeners, though, Courtney, let's go back to high school.

You're back in school.

You're on your way to college.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

You know what's so funny?

Back in high school, I don't really know That I had a clue.

I remember very specifically thinking I was going to stay in school for Texas School.

I wasn't really interested in going out of state.

I had visited Texas A and M University a couple times for like, drill team conferences and things like that.

And that's where my parents went.

So I probably knew I was going to A and M. I didn't really know what major I wanted, but I ended up settling with business school and specifically choosing marketing.

But what's interesting is something I did in high school that I should have had top of mind really went out the window.

And I was in speech, drama and debate in high school.

So I was that nerdy girl every Friday night hopping on a yellow school bus to go to some other school to do debate tournaments on a Friday night.

But I loved it from a very early age.

Public speaking was just something that surprisingly I like doing and I found fun.

So I put that kind of on the side burner, back burner.

When I went to school, graduated with marketing, got an emphasis in retail, like working in retail.

And my first job out of college was actually at Neiman Marcus in their buying offices.

Lovely.

And that was fun.

It sounds super glamorous.

It is not.

It is Excel spreadsheets.

Just so you all know, I was.

There was no Gucci Runway shows, drinking champagne.

It was Microsoft Excel.

And me, I.

So I actually ended up going back to MBA school at Texas A and M. Came out with more of an emphasis in hr.

And that's where I started going into recruiting and training after that.

So that's kind of how I got here.

When I fell into training, blessed enough to have someone at the company I was with, to realize I had a background in speaking and gave me a shot, I knew I had found my home.

Professional development, helping people be better, that's what I love.

Well, now I know.

You do speaking, you do training, you do coaching.

What made you pick leadership as your topic?

I mean, as speakers, a lot of people come out and go, hey, I. I'm going to be a speaker.

But they don't have a topic.

And they're always, how did you choose your topic?

And I think usually the topic chooses you.

I think what happens is by our experience.

What was your experience with that?

Well, I'm kind of lucky in that before I decided to do this on my own, I had almost 15 years in leadership development in the professional setting, so corporate leadership development.

So I knew that that was my home.

But I think what really made me stick with it.

And first of all, I love It.

But when I was promoted to be a leader of a team, even though, get this, I had been teaching the classes for at least 10 years, I bombed.

I was a horrible leader because as you know, because you do a lot of the same things that I do, knowing is not doing.

They are two very different animals.

So you can have all the book knowledge, you can have the theory behind you, but if you have not put in the reps, if you have not tried those skills on in real life, totally different ball game.

So that is actually what made me stick with it and become even more focused on the communication and the relationships and the tough conversation side of leadership.

Because I was always the girl who kicked butt and took names doing the work and turning out the product and getting the results.

But I backburnered relationships.

They were nice to have, they were not a must have.

So then when I became a leader of people, I didn't have those relationships already built in and I still thought that they weren't that important, didn't really focus on it until my world basically came crumbling down and I had to really take a close look at myself in the mirror and figure out what I was doing differently and wrong.

And that was it.

I wasn't developing what was the crumbling down.

Just the fact that you felt that, hey, the self reflection, I'm not a good leader.

It was both.

You know how you know in your gut this is not going well.

Yeah, I suck.

And you were just crossing your fingers and you're praying that no one else also realizes that.

Yeah, everyone else was realizing it and they were talking, weren't telling me because again, no one's brave enough to have the tough conversation.

Right.

No one was giving me feedback specifically, but they were talking behind my back.

They went to my boss and she had to be the one to bring me into a room.

And I will never forget it because in my corporate development leadership career, leadership development career, I can think of one or two instances where I got some minor constructive criticism.

But I remember her basically telling me, you're failing badly.

And it was like the old school twilight Zone.

Like the room started spinning.

I was like, is this real?

Am I dreaming this?

What's going on?

Oh, it was very real.

And I had to really figure out quickly what I was going to do about it.

It's interesting when you do get that kind of feedback.

And I remember I was telling the story, actually working on a new book and I've told the story in the book.

I remember I was in sales, I was doing, I thought, great I went to go with the premier sales training company, and I met with the director, and I thought, I'm going to slam Doug this one.

This is going to be great.

And after 30 minutes, he says to me, you're the worst sales professional I've ever met.

I wouldn't even call yourself professional.

And he just goes, all you did was talk about you.

You didn't ask me a single question.

It was great feedback.

And he was exactly right.

And it bugged me.

It hurt.

You know, you want to go in the car and cry your eyes out and go, here.

I thought I was good at this stuff.

But then it can motivate you, too.

And so it becomes a motivational issue where you go, I want it just the opposite.

What do I need to learn?

So it's a good, humbling experience, but I totally get that.

Let's talk about leadership, because you had two years of corporate 14, 15 years there, then you kind of chose it as a topic to speak on and do your workshops and training on.

How have you seen it evol over from your adulthood stage, from the adults and leaders you followed?

How's it evolved?

Have we gone backwards?

It seems like there's lack of accountability.

It seems with leadership, you know, I'm looking at our political environment, just whatever side of the fence people are on, but just leaders in general.

We've got character.

Does character stand for anything anymore?

How have you seen it evolve?

And where do you think the issues are?

It's so hard because we've been in this a long time.

And when you think back, you know, back at the last 30 years or so, you definitely have seen that evolution.

Because when I first started work out of college, I was primarily working for boomers.

In terms of generational differences, I'm strong Gen X.

We came in, the boomers who were successful, showed us the way it was done, and we basically said, okay, this is the game we have to play.

All right.

So I remember my first job back at Neiman's.

I came in as early as my boss did, if not earlier.

She worked through lunch.

I worked through lunch.

Half the time she would ask me to go get her lunch, which I happily did.

She stayed till 5, 6, 7.

I stayed till 5, 6, 7.

It was like what you did, what was modeled for you, and you really didn't question it.

And I think the biggest evolution we've seen over the last 20, 30 years is especially with our millennials, but certainly going into our Gen Z as well, is people are raising their hand and saying, no, I don't like that.

I don't want to do that.

I don't think that's the best way to do things.

I'm going to push back, and that is just something that I feel like we didn't do back in the day.

Your boss said jump.

You said how it was.

Oh, that it was command and control.

I'm on that baby boomer side of it, and I look at leadership and, you know, when I talk to audiences, I'll ask millennials, how many of you heard that you're entitled?

I heard that expression, of course, all hands go up.

And I go, well, first of all, I'm a baby boomer, and I think you should be entitled.

You should be entitled to go to college, come out and get a good job and not be in massive debt.

You should be able to walk down the street in Dallas, Texas, with your family or go to a park and not worry about getting shot.

You should be entitled to clean water, clean air.

You should be entitled to good work, life balance.

Those are good entitlements.

And they usually get all excited about that one.

But the point is, every generation is different.

And I look at my generation from the baby boomer point of view.

We had presidents acting inappropriately in the White house.

We had CEOs of major corporations bankrupting them, embezzling them.

And we still get some of that, but the values didn't seem to be there.

And we looked at people as being strong.

And I'm curious about that from a perspective, because you came up as a female.

And when we think of leadership, we always think of that strong, macho type leader.

Oh, he's such a good leader.

Ver.

When we have a woman coming forward, we go, well, hey, there's other issues.

We got to look at this.

What are you actually saying in the marketplace, male versus female from a gender point of view?

Because in my mind, I'm seeing it almost the opposite.

I'm seeing where we're seeing women doing some phenomenal things from a leadership role point of view, and they're bringing something to the table that men just don't bring.

What do you see?

Well, I think the good news is the research behind what you just said is very true.

You can find the stats that say having women leaders at that executive level and above or even at the more the foundational level brings good things to teams in terms of retention and engagement and productivity.

I still think there's a pretty big bias out there in terms of promoting women up.

I still think you have women who are strong Leaders who maybe are more direct and they're labeled one way, while a man can be that very strong and direct, and he's labeled a very different way.

And that's unfortunate, to say the least.

So I think that is still out there.

I do think it's evolving and we're coming along.

I just wish we'd evolve at a faster pace, for sure.

Still slow.

And it's the old white guy holding onto his power.

We're seeing it in lots of different initiatives from whether it's ESG or DI or whatever the political flavor is.

They were seeing that.

And so let's talk about the principles of leadership themselves.

How have they evolved in the last couple of decades?

When we think of leaders, we're thinking, and I think it's misplaced.

We think of somebody who's strong as somebody who's powerful.

And that's really not always the case because we've got other great leaders.

You had Steve Jobs, you had Michael Dallas.

You've got other leaders who are.

Bill Gates.

They're all leaders of their organizations and had different.

You had Oprah, you know, great organization.

So there's lots of good role models.

How have you seen it evolved and what were the key major changes that you think of are here to stay and what maybe needs to be changed?

I think one of the biggest evolutions I've seen is that we are expected to leave our personal lives at the door.

20, 30 years ago, you didn't bring your whole self to work.

You kept certain parts of your whole self hidden.

You didn't talk much about your family at work.

You certainly didn't get personal phone calls at work.

Remember when, like back in the day, my very first job, I waited tables, and I remember there was only one main phone.

We didn't really have a lot of cell phones out there at that point.

Even if you did, you wouldn't use it when you're waiting tables, right?

I remember being appalled if I got a personal phone call at work.

It's like, what does that say about me?

Does this make me look bad?

Oh, my gosh.

Now it is nothing for all of us to be taking texts from that we know during meetings, you know, whenever it is.

So your whole self is brought to work.

There's really no defining line anymore of what is personal, what is work.

It's so blended, and I think this is a big part of it.

I think our cell phone is a big part of that, too.

So that's the first evolution, is that it's unrealistic nowadays for as a boss, to say, I want you to leave your personal life at the door.

Like many of us were told back in the day.

The other thing I think we're seeing is that the people we're leading expect us to know them and respect them and value them.

Human beings, they want you to know about them, they want to know about you, and they want to have a relationship with you.

Which means we're seeing more of a push towards a more empathetic form of leadership.

People do build relationships, do have open and honest communication, do have an understanding that life starts lifing sometimes and it gets hard.

I think there is more of a pull for that from the workforce now.

Interesting.

When it comes to leadership, a lot of times within organizations, at least in my experience, we always took the top performers.

For instance, I'm in sales and marketing world, we would take the top performer and hey, he wants to earn more money.

We're already paying.

He's earning good commissions, he's brilliant.

Let's promote him to manager so we can afford to pay him or her more.

And then they get up there and they're terrible leaders.

They don't have the skill sets.

So we've taken those best doers, and I know you talk about this, and many of our listeners are entrepreneurs who promoted their best doer, their superstar sales rep or their technician into a manager role.

You call this taking off the cape moment?

What's the single biggest mindset shift a new leader must make to transition from, say, a high performing individual contributor to a successful people leader?

Can they make that move?

What should we be looking for?

Yeah, good call.

And you're right, I do call that taking off the cape because we often promote what I call our team superheroes.

Like they're the ones who, if you're the boss, I was this person, this was me.

When I was on the training team, not leading the team, there was a big presentation.

Call Courtney, you need to go in front of the board, board of directors or the vp.

Put Courtney up for that.

Something else fell through because they didn't do their job right.

Give it to Courtney, she'll fix it.

So I was used to swooping in, saving the day, fixing it, usually by myself, because that was my gift and I would just pull through it.

But you can't keep doing that.

When you get promoted to a leadership role, I like to say you are now the Nick Fury and everyone else is the adventures.

Right?

Like you're kind of behind the scenes.

You're the one pulling some strings and making People feel supported helping them do their jobs.

But you're not Captain America, you're not the Black Widow.

So it's to you to realize you've got to take off the cape, teach other people to be the superhero and make that shift to where maybe you're not getting all the glory anymore and all the kudos, but the work is happening and people are better because of you, because you're there to lift them up and support them.

But that is a huge mindset shift for someone who's used to being the superhero to shift into oftentimes because they don't know how.

They were never set up to be good delegators or coaches or givers of feedback.

And quite frankly, from just a human psychology point of view, you kind of don't want to like we want to keep being the go to save the day gal or guy.

It's nice, really good.

Yeah, it's interesting and I see it in the sales and marketing world all the time.

They're always promoting that individual.

But it also goes to if you're trying to scale your business or to grow and build leadership, you've got to build with the right tools.

And companies have to train those people in order to do those tools.

I know delegating is a tough process for some people.

For me, that's a tough one.

No one does it quite like I do it, but there's lots of people who can do it, 70 or 80% like I do it.

And that's good enough.

And I think it's being okay with good enough.

Many leaders struggle to delegate because their fear of failure or inefficiency.

What's your framework for?

You call it strategic delegation, I think.

How can a leader let go of control while simultaneously using the process of delegation to help develop their team?

Yeah, this is something I learned a long time ago.

And it goes back to what I was saying about you can know the thing, but until you do the thing, really you can't implement right.

So one of the best ways you can develop up your people to become better in their current role or even for their next role is to start slowly but surely delegating things that will help them gain those skills and competencies that they will need.

So for example, when I was a trainer on my training team, I wish I would have had my boss basically coach someone more or delegate.

Delegate some things that I had teach other people how to do it, but also delegate and hold people accountable almost to give me like the training wheels approach to where I could get some practice but it wasn't full circle serious yet.

And then when I got to be the true leader, I would have a bit more of that practice behind me.

But what we don't realize and what I like to tell people all the time is development of your team does not have to be expensive.

Because yes, you could hire someone like me to come in and do a full training program for you, right?

You could hire yourself.

Michael, you do all this stuff too, but you really get the biggest bang for your buck when you start to think through what this person is really good at.

What do they need help in and what development in and what can I give them as a task or a project or even to some degree exposure to that would help them gain those skills.

And oftentimes it's free.

I'm not saying send them to a conference, send them to a $5,000 training program.

What can you do daily to take off your plate to free up your time, but also do them the service of developing them for their promoted the.

Best examples I ever saw and which made sense was if you think of a pyramid, the typical hierarchy within an organization, you got the top dog, you know who's ever up at the top there, that top leader, and you got the rest of the organization and they're supporting the leader where what I believe a better approach is to invert the pyramid so the leaders at the bottom, just to your point, and bring in all the support mechanisms, support the rest of the team in the organization so they're actually serving the organization.

Is that how you see it as well?

I completely agree.

That inverted pyramid approach to where the leader is essentially at the bottom and supporting the others to help them do their job.

That's exactly the approach I prefer to take and that's the approach I prefer to teach as well.

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And now back to my conversation with Courtney Ramsey.

Let's move into high stakes communication because I know that's part of a leadership role.

You've got a popular TEDx talk called quitting the Snooze Button, basically on tough conversations for entrepreneurs who are losing sleep over say a non performing employee or a crucial client negotiation.

And we run into those all the time.

What's the high cost of hitting that snooze button in business?

Absolutely.

Well, you already named one of them, which is the simple stress it does to your body.

Right.

Like how many times have you woken up at three in the morning ruminating over a conversation you need to have?

You keep putting it off, it keeps waking you up.

Maybe now you're even dreading going to work the next day or having to deal with this person.

That resentment starts building.

So when you think about that, just the toll it's taking on your physical body and your mental health is a huge cost.

And you can look online and see all kinds of stats around like 90% of illnesses can be related back to stress.

Right.

So that's a big part.

I think the other thing though is we don't always think about there is a truly financial implication to avoiding these conversations.

Some of the research I like to lean on because I really love the book is the people who wrote Crucial Conversations.

If you look at Crucial Learning's approach to everything, and I'm not quoting this specifically, so please, if you're listening to this, go out and look at it.

But most people, I think around 50% of people can say a conversation they've avoided at work has probably cost their company at least $10,000.

Interesting.

Now when you think about that, that sounds interesting, right?

Exactly.

It sounds like really 10,000.

But you start thinking about missed deadlines, rework, people calling out sick because they just don't want to deal with it that day.

They are taking a mental health day, people quitting, and the amount it cost to rehire someone because this person was fed up and done right.

I think even at a frontline level that's around $5,000 US so it's crazy.

It's crazy how when you start thinking about all that goes into it.

Yeah, I can See how on the lower end, a missed conversation that we keep putting off can cost a lot of money for each corporation.

Lack of presence, lack of focus.

There's so many variables to it.

What about having.

And I get this, I, I've had the same middle of the night thing.

What should I say?

And have the conversation play out in my head or, you know, if you're a people person and leadership, and this is always a challenge as you're building an organization or a team within an organization.

Sometimes we want to be friends with the people that are our report.

So we want to go have a lunch with them or a coffee with them, or we socialize with them and we become friends and we trust them, they trust us.

But then there might be a reason that we need to have a difficult conversation.

How do you bridge that?

Is that, is there a danger there, Is there a distance that leaders ought to maybe maintain and keep in order to be able to have that firewall, if you will.

That's a tough question.

And if I'm keeping it real with you, I don't know that there is one hardcore definitive answer.

Because going back to how we're all so connected nowadays, it's really easy to kind of blur that line between boss and friend and peer kind of thing.

I think what we have to remember if we zoom, zoom out a bit is at the core of being a leader, at this being your job.

It is your job to do a good job of developing your people, giving them feedback, holding them accountable and really setting very clear expectations.

So if your friendship is getting in the way of that, that's a pretty big red flag for sure.

Yeah.

So I'm not necessarily saying we have to hold back, but I think at the very early on and probably even bring it up occasionally.

You have to make sure this relationship, each party knows at the core this is a leadership subordinate relationship.

And it is this person's job to give me the feedback I need, the coaching I need, hold me accountable.

And quite frankly, if they're not doing those things, they're not doing their job.

And I always like to say too, if you're doing those things, it usually shows you truly, genuinely care.

Like if I've written you off and I really couldn't care less about you, I'm not going to take my time to give you the feedback, especially if it's hard to deliver.

I'm usually giving you that feedback because I genuinely believe in you.

I see potential for improvement and I want to help you.

I think it's changing Hats you know, I've worked with my wife, and she has her department, I have my department, and she's phenomenal production editor, and she does her programming and looks after.

I kind of stay out of that department.

But if I have a business issue that I need to address, I can't come in as, you know, husband or boyfriend.

How I always say I'm her boyfriend, but I can't come in wearing that hat.

What I'll do is I'll say, hey, I'm putting on my business owner hat now to talk to you about this particular issue.

And then I'll talk to her.

And I have to get her to change gears a little bit.

So by framing it and putting it in, or if I'm talking to one of my daughters, I'm going, hey, I'm going to put my dad hat on for a minute.

Yeah, all right.

And just give you a pair as dad.

And then we go back to being buddies and friends because they're all adult children.

Or if they're not asking for advice, then I probably shouldn't give it anyway unless they are asking for it.

But I think it's learning how to adapt and have those difficult conversations.

And when it comes to miscommunication and communication styles, miscommunication is definitely a cancer in growing companies.

We see it all the time.

You work a lot with communication styles.

For our listeners who feel constantly frustrated by, say, a team member they just can't get through to, what's the quickest way to identify their style and maybe flex their own to be a little more influential.

Gotcha.

So much good stuff you just said there.

First of all, I want to go back to what you said about taking off the hat and actually saying those words out loud.

I call that setting your intention and saying your intention out loud.

So that's actually my conversation formula.

That's the very first thing I teach, which is if you've got to frame this conversation the right way.

So I love that you are inherently saying, hey, this is not Michael, your husband, talking to you right now.

This is your business partner, and we have need to have a business conversation.

Because what you're essentially telling your wife at that point is my intent is not to come at you.

This is not personal.

This is a business decision.

Let's talk about this as two business partners right now.

So when I'm open to feedback and feedback and it goes back.

And I guess you could do it with employees, too.

Like, for me, it's more with employees.

You want to be nice to the people but it's framing it and going, hey, as a business owner, having gone through the experience, here's how I see improvement.

Here's what's working great, here's what's not working so good.

But in an interest, if we want to keep working with you because we just love having you in our family, here's what we need to do moving forward and then get their thoughts on it as well.

So it's.

And it's being direct but not mean.

It was being kind about it, isn't it?

It's really.

It is.

That's where EQ kind of comes into the picture.

And then how are you training that?

Because that is again.

And I think we do it, but I don't want to genderize this, but I.

That's why we saw a lot of HR directors are female because they tend to be the heart of the organizations versus.

And like I said, I have five daughters, so I'm a little biased myself.

But, you know, I see how the daughters deal with issues.

Right.

They're very communicative and stuff.

Is it still a problem?

Do you run into this in the corporate world sometimes where you still got the.

What's the word I want to use?

The.

The male dominant approach to things, or are you starting to see it get more balanced?

A little bit.

How's it working?

Working?

I see both in terms of EQ in general.

I mean, we're so all over the board nowadays.

So you do see the most.

The stereotypical kind of thing, right.

Where you have the dominant person.

Typically when I'm coaching, it typically is male, but that doesn't mean that's a hardcore role, that's for sure.

But yeah, we do still see those people who don't quite get that things have changed in the last 20, 30 years and it's no longer okay to come in as this authoritarian.

No, when I say jump, you say, how high?

I don't care about feelings.

Leave your feelings at home.

You get a few people who don't quite get that yet, but I do think the majority understand you.

You can't really lead that way anymore.

So I think that's really good.

Some evolution.

And you're right, we do typically stereotype women as having the ego.

But the good news is EQ is something you can grow no matter who you are or how old you are.

Yeah, I think so.

I've got daughters that are helping me with that evolution and personal evolving.

So it does make a difference.

Speaking of evolving, let's talk about AI and how AI works for Leaders.

It's always about improving efficiency, retention, getting people working.

How can an overwhelmed entrepreneur or mid level manager leverage tools like ChatGPT and some of the AI tools for high level tasks, not just for writing copy, but to truly save time and enhance their leadership and communication.

How can they apply it?

You know what's so funny is you can use it actually for the question you asked earlier that we didn't quite.

To get to where you're talking about reading someone and connecting better with someone who may be a different personality type than you are.

Yeah, different style.

One thing I've heard of is potentially going into, let's say you're using ChatGPT or whatever AI tool you like.

Like if you're using the version where you can set up projects or groupings of conversations, you can actually set up a whole project on your team members.

So if I was working for you, Michael, you could set up a Courtney file and you could say, based on what I've seen Courtney, this is what I know about her.

You know, she told me she is an enneagram 9/5.

She told me that on the disc scale she's a high S. When I speak with her, she's very relationship driven.

She's very is expressive.

She's pretty animated.

I know that she's a hard worker, right?

So you give all this stuff, right?

Maybe even plug in a few emails that I give into you.

Of course with not personal data, things like that, but just the way I communicate.

Right.

And I could go back into that file and say, listen, I need to have a tough conversation with Courtney.

We need to talk about xyz.

How do I approach Courtney in a way that works for her but is still authentic to my style?

Give me some tips.

Interesting.

And now it can come in and be like, this is what I recommend.

So what I would love for people to start thinking of, first of all, even if you don't go to that extent, even if you just say in your regular old everyday chat prompt, this is what I know about this person.

This is my dilemma.

What do you recommend?

You will get so much value.

Chat, GPT and the other AIs are pretty decent at being leadership coaches.

Now please.

The disclaimer here is don't follow up for legal advice.

Always seek real legal counsel, things like that.

But if you're just looking for recommendations on maybe how to give some feedback that you're a little worried won't land appropriately or this person's going to get defensive, how could you handle it if this person starts Crying in the middle of the feedback conversation.

I think it's a great tool for that.

That's an interesting angle on using it employment.

And it makes sense because every day we can keep learning new tools, things to help us.

So you can focus on the empathy part.

Because the one thing AI can't do is it doesn't feel, it doesn't have that experience.

It can tell you a poem that'll make you cry, but it's never experienced it itself.

And that's why I think our own personal experiences go a long way that way.

Let's talk about the generations that are out there.

So we've got obviously new generations of technology, but you've also got five generations of workers.

Still got some baby boomers out there.

How is an effective leader?

How do we approach the different styles?

Because they're all different.

It's like learning.

I'll sit and watch a 45 minute video, a Gen X or won't.

It's nine minutes, seven minutes.

We've had to redesign things because ding, ding, ding, it's too much time.

Right.

So every generation has its own learning style.

Are we seeing different leadership styles and how they recognize that leadership or how they react to that type of leadership and communication channels?

Are you seeing that amongst the different generations?

Yes.

And kind of thing.

It's.

I definitely think you still see the different styles.

I love more than anything those Tick Tock videos where they actually show like how a boomer would react to it.

How an Xer, how millennial.

Right.

And I think to some degree that's a, you know, blown up and exaggerated form of it.

But to some degree it's true.

To some degree it's true.

I think boomers are still pretty, you know, there's high expectations.

It's like, I'm working this hard.

Why aren't you working this hard?

Xers is kind of like, you need to figure this out.

Like I was a latchkey kid, I did my own thing.

I figured out how to make the Mac and cheese when I was in fifth grade.

Why can't you, you know?

Right, right.

So there's still that kind of approach there.

I think millennials are still kind of coming across as more that understanding cool boss.

Like they want to be your buddy and understand, but also tell you what's up.

So it's like, yeah, I understand this is really stupid over here and here's why I still need you to do it kind of thing.

And we're not seeing a lot of Gen Z yet, but it's gonna be really interesting to see what Gen Z does in terms of how they evolve to be leaders.

Yeah, it is good because look at their examples.

And so it will be interesting when.

And people sometimes come up and ask us, hey, I want to be a speaker.

What can I do to get a speaker?

And I know you ran the Texas chapter there in Dallas, I think North Dallas chapter for National Speakers association for a couple years.

You know, a few of my friends that are there as well and I do, I.

You do.

And good strong chapter.

And so people come up and they always ask me, well, what about the speaking career?

And I said, well, if you can look at as speakers and in the back of your head go, I can do that.

That's something I can do.

I just.

Maybe not the way they do it.

Then you can.

That's your qualifier.

How is it for leaders when you're in an organization where you call it, I think the power of asking, but for a business professional looking to grow their influence, climb that ladder, you speak on the need to speak up and say it.

What's the secret to articulating our worth confidently?

So whether it's asking for a raise, a promotion or opportunity, without feeling like you're bragging or being demanding.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I think we feel like my friend used to call this Bragasaurus rex, like, because you're like a Tyrannosaurus rex.

While like no one wants to be the one walking in.

Like, look at me, I'm so amazing and this is what I did today.

But at the same time, gone are the days where someone has enough time to really sit back and observe and be like, wow, did you see Michael?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He is killing it.

We're going to tap him on the shoulder and ask him if he wants to be promoted.

Like, that just doesn't happen anymore.

We are all such busy people.

So to me, we have to start getting into the habit of essentially bringing up our accomplishments more in the course of everyday conversation without it feeling icky and oogy and kind of ugh.

Right.

So one of the best things I think you can do if you're on a team and you want to start promoting either your team more with your boss or maybe you don't yet lead a team when you have one on one conversations, when you have career conversations, and if you're not having them, by the way, raise your hand and ask for that because that should be happening monthly, if not at least quarterly.

Start getting in the habit of bringing up a few accomplishments that you're really proud of.

And I would even, I like to say, call the elephant out in the room.

Room meaning if you're my boss, Michael, I might say, Michael, this feels weird.

I don't like bragging on myself and that's exactly how this feels right now.

But I also know you're busy and there's a couple of things that I'm really proud of that me and the team accomplished that you might not be aware of.

And I want to make sure I call those things out so they don't get lost in the shuffle.

By the way, that's an intent statement.

We just talked about framing it and setting an intent statement.

That's what that is.

That can be a weird conversation.

Not all conversations are conflict.

Sometimes they're just uncomfortable because you don't want to feel like you're tooting your own horn.

So look for those everyday opportunities.

Start making a file.

Open up notes on your computer, whatever it might be.

Have an email inbox where you throw things into.

Because if you're like me too, you remember a hundred percent of everything bad.

But the good stuff will go in one ear and out the other.

Never does it stick.

So start really making notes.

So when you are thinking about what are some things that I'm particularly proud of that I could talk about in my touch base meetings, you have a list of things to pull from.

It's moving from I deserve this to hey, I've earned this and I can deliver.

And here's my portfolio work.

Here's my proof.

Yeah, here's what I've done and I love doing it.

It's being that assertive and it's tough always because some companies are ready for it, some aren't.

But it's having that conversation and you talk about it.

Boy, time moves quick here.

But as we wrap up, what's one final single action for our listeners?

The entrepreneurs and business professionals striving to become the preferred leader in their industry.

What can they implement today to start their journey to better leadership?

So the one thing I would encourage people to start doing today to make make a huge impact on your leadership is to stop avoiding the uncomfortable.

So basically, quit hitting snooze, as I like to call it.

Yeah, quit hitting snooze on those things that you know you should be doing, should be saying, should be talking about.

But you're holding yourself back because you're scared of the person's reaction or hurting their feelings or making things worse.

Zoom out for a second.

Think about what not having those conversations is truly costing you.

And figure out a way to start having the conversation with that person.

Because I promise you, if you stop putting off these tough conversations and you start facing those problems and minor conflicts early on.

I like to say when they're like a little baby weed before they grow into a big old tree, a weed that's a baby.

You can pluck it up by hand really easy.

If it's a tree, you need a chainsaw, right?

So stop avoiding it, stop letting the problem grow and start having the conversation as soon as you see it.

And you're going to find it has a huge impact on your leadership ability and your productivity as as well.

Alone.

No, that makes sense.

Start being more intentional about the relationships.

And I know you say leadership's a contact sport, which sounds like it is, and it all boils down to trust, consistency and self awareness.

So have those conversations.

Be prepared to listen to feedback as well.

And it sounds like it's still evolving and there's lots of work for us all to do.

So Courtney, this was great.

Thanks for coming, sharing some insights with us.

The website is courtneyramseyspeaks.com we'll have everything in the show notes so they can find you, they can find your book, they go to your website.

You got lots of great resources there that they can go with.

So you've got your blog.

Whether you're meeting, professional services, speaking, workshops, it's all there.

Thanks for being our guest today.

Thanks for having me.

I enjoyed it.

As you are listening to this episode, what is one idea that you've heard that has caught your attention and why does it matter so much to you and who is one person who you can share that with?

Either share this episode or just share that insight that occurred to you while you were listening.

Perhaps it is improving the four areas of emotional intelligence so you can interact with your team more effectively, or learning a new approach to bridging the generational gaps.

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Goodbye.