Encore Episode - Sandie Eggers - Cultivating Gratitude, Even in Adversity

Welcome to the Becoming Preferred podcast.

I'm Michael Vickers, and today I'm bringing you a special replay of one of my favorite conversations.

And the timing couldn't be better.

We just celebrated Thanksgiving a few days ago.

For many of us, it was a time to gather with friends and family, share a meal and reflect on our blessings.

But here's what I've come to believe.

Gratitude isn't meant to be a once a year event.

It's a practice, a daily discipline that shapes how we see the world and how we move through it.

Every morning, as part of my journaling routine, I'm prompted with a simple question.

What am I grateful for?

And I've discovered something profound in that practice.

When you start your day with gratitude, you position yourself to see abundance, not because your circumstances magically change, but because your perspective does.

Now, here's the thing.

Gratitude is easy when life is good.

But what about when you're in the middle of a storm?

What about when the diagnosis is devastating, when the relationship is fractured, when the business is struggling?

Can gratitude still work then?

That's exactly what my guest, Sandy Eggers, helps us understand.

Sandy learned the transformational power of gratitude during one of life's hardest seasons.

Her husband's terminal illness.

And what she discovered wasn't just a coping mechanism.

It was a way to navigate adversity with strength, clarity, and even joy.

So whether you're riding high from a wonderful Thanksgiving or you're carrying a heavy burden into the season, I believe this conversation will meet you right where you are.

Gratitude isn't about ignoring your struggles.

It's about finding solid ground in the middle of them.

Let's get into it.

Well, hey, Sandy, welcome to the program.

We're delighted to have you back.

Oh, delighted to be back again.

Thank you.

No, I'm really excited about.

When I saw that you were on our schedule as a guest, I was really excited.

I remember a few years ago you were a guest and we talked on the subject of resiliency and how important it was to build resiliency.

We had just kind of come through the pandemic and everybody was dealing with a lot of the issues that go along with that.

And of course, it's changed so much.

And now we're here to talk about a new program that you're evolving into, and it's all around gratitude.

And you've written a new book and we're going to talk all about that and just the power of gratitude and how it works.

But hey, for our listeners.

So welcome to the show again.

We're delighted to have you.

How did that evolution come, how did we move from resiliency and what kind of led you on this path to gratitude?

Well, it was really interesting and you're absolutely right, Michael.

Resilience.

And as I noticed the environment around me, especially with COVID all the stress and people have been, and they continue unfortunately to be under a lot of stress with societal changes and constant turmoil.

And so I thought we really need to help them build resilience.

And that was my concern.

But as I began to share about this concept, which is a very valuable, it's more than a concept, a very valuable idea which has research based tools, it was difficult to really market.

And that is because resilience, when you hear resilience, it could mean many things.

It could mean a ball bouncing back from, you know, a rubber band being stretched and being resilient or it could mean military resilience.

And so that was difficult for people to really grasp, but it was just too complex a topic.

And then I discovered as I was looking at my journey and also what is related to resilience.

And then I began to see some other aspects.

But what really was key was one November, it was about a year or so ago in November, I began posting a lot about gratitude and I got a lot more traction.

People were more interested in this topic and I thought, oh yes, it's so much easier to help explain so to connect with people right away to help.

And the idea of gratitude, as I look back in my own experience, how gratitude was so important for me in my growth, especially during adversity and the tough times in my life.

And then as I began to research gratitude, again, just such a plethora of benefits that again have been researched and have been validated by research that people need to know about as well as through this validation, their tools have been developed to help them cultivate this wonderful thing called gratitude, which interestingly enough is a building block of resilience.

So I'm, I was thinking, as you're saying that I'm going it's foundational really because you can't have one without the other.

Let's talk about the adversity because that's where it came from in the resiliency and just your own personal life experience.

Let's remind our listeners because we have a whole bunch of new ones, kind of give them the overview of some of the adversity that you've had to go through personally.

Well, the most and still to date, the greatest adversity that I'd gone Through was the terminal illness of my late husband.

You know, we had been high school sweethearts, we had married, had a really wonderful marriage, and then he wasn't even 50 years old and was struck with colon cancer.

And so when it was first diagnosed, his gastroenterologist, the surgeon who discovered the issue, gave us three courses of treatment, and his words began, do nothing and be dead in a few days.

And so that's very, very stark, needless to say.

And he went on, if you have an operation, It'll be maybe six months, Operation Chemo, maybe two years.

Not two years.

It was about a year, I think, maybe 18 months.

And so that's what began that journey.

And my dear spouse just fought it to the end and took advantage of all the medical advances.

We were then blessed with two years.

But through that experience, through that adversity, you know, you have the ups and downs and you have the uncertainties, and you have.

I mean, you really have a real life and death issue facing you.

We began to discover the simple things in life, such as being grateful for hearing tree frogs one evening in a beautiful summer's night.

And so being able to.

While we couldn't control this monster called cancer, really, ultimately we were battling it.

What we could control was the appreciation of the moment, of the day, of being grateful for.

Here we are, another day of life.

And so that perspective helped inform what I'm doing now.

And I believe with my experience, I can really help and further connect with people who've gone through similar experiences or are going through and help them navigate that a lot more effectively.

Yeah, I think that's the key to the connection and that you can be empathetic because you've been through those things.

You know, I've been through divorce.

I know what that looks like.

I can be empathetic to that.

There's always something, you know, that is going to, you know, an adversity or a hardship.

So that's a given that's going to happen.

It could be any of these conditions.

Your resiliency or your ability to bounce back is really the key to it.

And there's a lot of factors that go into that.

I want to get into those factors of that because, you know, we look at things from our perspective and we look around the world in today's world.

Like, we're in our studios up in Canada, you're in South Carolina, you know, we're talking remotely, but we've got political strife, we've got division going on, We've got the Syrian thing going on.

We've got the Ukraine thing going on, the Russian thing going on all over.

There's conflict everywhere and it's hard.

How do you be grateful?

How do you show gratitude when you're living in those environments?

It's easy when we're living in an environment like we're living, you know, we have fresh water, we have food, we're not starving.

You can get help here.

You know, we're very fortunate to live here because even when it's bad, it's pretty good.

People trade places with us in a minute.

What you're feeling on how people in Gaza and Israel, they're in conflict and war torn things without.

And I know we're not picking sides, but just that massive level of anxiety.

Does gratitude still work?

Well, the interesting thing about gratitude.

Yeah.

And I guess the short answer is yes.

And the caveat though is ironically for gratitude to truly work in any situation, but especially in adversity.

It's not that you ignore the adversity, you are very cognizant of it.

But let me back up a bit and say, try to explain what I mean by the yes.

Another key to gratitude.

Gratitude can't.

Is not gratitude unless you're grateful for something or someone outside yourself.

That's where the real power is.

And so I think that in those very dire situations where like you say, clean water may not be available, you know, bombs are falling, you're trying to keep safe amidst such, such carnage, that what can help you through is gratitude on more of a transcendent level in the sense that gratitude for gratitude to toward God, someone again, something outside yourself.

And the research has shown there seems to be a correlation between those people who as it were, are more spiritual or have that inclination and the love gratitude to direct.

Yeah, because they could have whatever God is to them or their higher power.

That's what they can tune into and give gratitude for.

And rely upon that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And it's something that, hey, you're not alone.

You can kind of go through this.

You know, I love reading the Stoics.

I read the Stoics regularly, like every day.

And I love their approach to it because.

Because basically they're okay with whatever shows up and it's our judgment about those things that make them bad or calling it adversity when it could be a lesson.

That's kind of their perspective on this.

Right.

Is hey, you know, I could be locked in a prison cell, right?

Against my will.

I'm against my will.

I don't want to be in there.

But how Many people are in prison cells, not physical ones, but mental prison cells.

All right, and they're there against their will.

Right.

So they've got these insights that just make us look at things differently, reframe it and go, hey, this is for the experience.

Because at the end of the day we're all leave in one way, right?

Come into the world and we all leave.

So who knows?

There's a lot of theories, but it's how do we deal with that?

How do we manage, how do we, you know, manage our life?

Your work centers a lot on fostering an attitude of gratitude.

But how can we genuinely embrace gratitude when we're faced with challenges that feel overwhelming?

Ah, very, very good question.

It's more than just I'm going to be happy today, you know, I'm going to have this great attitude.

It's a deeper realization.

It's interesting that like you have to both realize what your situation is and then at the same time recognize that you can navigate through that, you can transcend that.

The cultivating, where it goes deeper will be, I mean, I've got many research based techniques that I can guide someone with and help reinforce.

You had mentioned, for example, I think this is a good time to point out in your comments, just a moment ago you talked about reframing.

That's exactly one of the psychological techniques that's used in gratitude.

You reframe your situation.

And by that I don't mean that you're oblivious or that you're going to la la land, but by reframing it saying, ok, okay, this is a bad situation.

Yes, I'm hurting, it's painful, but what can I learn from this?

What are the opportunities?

What are the positive?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And so that's where the real power is.

And as I say, ironically, it's the more that you embrace the reality of your situation and not depart from it, the more that you can help navigate and even perhaps transcend at times that.

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

So there's no permanent as you know, you can wake up one day and your world has just changed.

What are the opportunities?

Are we defined by those things?

You know, and I think adversity really helps us with that.

It's going, hey, what's the lesson I need to learn here?

Right.

And that further enriches life as well.

You talk about gratitude being a practice, explain what that means.

Like how can we actively cultivate gratitude, especially when it doesn't come naturally to us?

Well, there are many, as I say, different techniques one can use but some of them are really case specific.

But like many people, start with what's known as a gratitude journal.

And again, research and the positive psychologists have shown that just starting that practice of stopping once a day and writing even just three things that you're grateful for for in that day makes you begin to rethink, to reframe, to really appreciate what you do have.

And that's a good way of building or beginning to build this gratitude.

Now, some people are more naturally grateful than others.

They have a positive outlook and they can see, you know, the glass is not half full, but overflow, flowing.

But for those who have a challenge, then this technique is especially good.

And it may be a slower climb for them.

But even those who tend to be more pessimistic, in fact, there's some specific techniques that you can use when you're a pessimist that, as it were, more pessimistic, that you can still cultivate gratitude.

In other words, recognizing your psychological makeup and again, embracing that, embracing the reality, okay, you're not as positive as Jane here, but that doesn't mean you can't grow or cultivate gratitude.

But it's understanding the impact, I think, of gratitude.

And so a gratitude journal, what you're saying, is a great way to be able to start that.

So, well, let's talk about that.

And you know, I've started doing that and since we've been chatting and I've been aware of the concept and it's hard sometimes, like you wake up and without being repetitive.

But do you have a process?

Because, you know, many people view adversity as something that they need to endure or to overcome.

Oh, yeah.

So how does shifting that perspective to one of gratitude actually change the perspective of hardship or the experience of hardship?

Well, for me, it was doing journaling, just journaling in general, you know, to get out my fears, my hopes, get out all my emotion as well.

Because when you're under whatever the adversity is, you're under stress.

It's often called a negative life event, which is rather euphemistic.

But we know, we all know, right?

That means, for me, it helped to begin to grasp that.

And I'll just try to be aware of, you know, even how the sunlight was coming in or how the sun was rising.

And the beauty of that, trying to focus on the little things.

So I think as you're going through, especially a major life event like I did, when it's all swirling around you, you're obviously dealing with it.

If you can just even for A moment, you know, a day, just stop, be a bit silent and observe or reflect on something that is positive.

You know, take some time for yourself if you can, even if it's a half an hour a day listening to music that's uplifting.

Because as you're going through this adversity, yes, gratitude will help you gain the strength and build that resilience.

So you can go through and begin to help you make sense of this craziness.

In other words, you can begin to see the good out of a very bad situation, but you still need to feed yourself.

The other thing that I think helped, in a sense, was gratitude is for me, when things really got difficult, and I've used this even since I've gone through my adversity that I declared what I call an international be kind to fill in your name day.

So I declared an International be kind to Sandy day, which I then did anything I wanted in terms of got up when I wanted, ate what I wanted, and.

And nurtured yourself.

So I guess that is also a core.

You know, you're nurturing yourself when you take a moment to look at the beauty.

But sometimes you need a longer period of time.

Music, candle, whatever helps restore your spirit and your perspective.

Yeah, the type of adversity too, maybe.

Like when you lose your partner and your loved one.

How would you use gratitude, for instance, in that scenario, when you've lost a partner because you wake up every morning and it's, you're starting a new day, where's my partner?

Right.

There's so much part of your life, because not all adversity is equal.

So let's say, you know, you lose a partner, you know, a few days ago, and so it's raw or a child or something.

When there's severe.

People go through those experiences.

How do you get to a place of I can even be grateful for something like, is there an exercise or a strategy to, hey, where's a place I can start?

Because a lot of times you feel pretty hopeless.

Yes, absolutely.

And I guess what I want to say, it's okay for that.

You've got to let yourself grieve and work through that situation.

For me, this goes back to what I think I'd shared as we were talking before this interview is that having gratitude to something outside yourself, to looking for strength outside yourself.

And for me, it's my Christian walk as a Christ follower, my reliance upon Christ, God and the strength.

So that's the first perspective, even coming in prayer.

I don't understand this, but help me the strength and then the other things you can do too is to recognize, I mean, people, they say, well, at least he's no longer suffering.

And that was true for my husband.

I mean, colon cancer is a monster.

Yeah.

And so knowing that he was at peace also by acknowledging, well, that person, my loved one, is no longer suffering.

Well, that's objective.

Yeah.

It's no matter, I think personally, as our resources, as human beings, like it or not, and we often fail to admit it, we are limited beings.

Sometimes we forget.

And you look at politicians, they often forget that, don't they?

So with that, that limitation, acknowledging that limitation, that's where reliance and a higher power on God.

Yeah.

Or something outside of ourselves at the very end.

Right.

To me, even mother Nature, you get out into the mountains and you go and look and just, wow.

However this showed up, so however you want to think it showed up, it doesn't matter.

It's something more than you and the.

Just the oddness of it.

Right.

Yeah.

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And now back to my conversation with Sandy Eggers.

You know, there's a lot of storms out there that bring us anxiety, worry, depression, you know, lack of motivation, low self esteem, feeling of isolation, you know, just to name a few.

They rob us of our physical, mental and emotional well being.

Like when I grew up, you know, I'm a baby boomer and you know, you heard about people being depressed but anxiety wasn't used very often.

You never heard people say, oh, I'm, I'm Having anxiety.

I'm taking a personal day to day now.

You know, it's almost a given.

But I'm not saying it's not real because if they're feeling anxiety, they're feeling anxiety with everything going on.

I get it.

Like I know what anxiety can look like.

And so how does the mechanism of gratitude get us out of that place, that negative space?

Again, a very good question.

Both.

Anxiety, again, you're focusing on yourself and what you're going through.

And a certain amount of that of course is important.

So you know, again, you're not oblivious to your reality.

And I do want to stress that in some cases you have an actual psychological condition and certainly seek the help of a psychologist or someone who's licensed to help deal with your anxiety.

I don't mean to at all dismiss that category because that's, that's really true as well.

But for someone, for example, perhaps an anxious moment or worrying about something, you get so sucked in, so obsessed, and you're spinning on this awful hamster wheel because you know it's awful, but you can't do anything and you feel powerless.

So the gratitude piece enables you again, remember that the definition of gratitude, you can't be grateful for something.

Can say, I'm so grateful for myself and I did this.

You are grateful for something outside yourself.

So by having that perspective, by looking outside yourself, you begin to relieve that anxiety, at least for a moment and concentrate and reflect on something beautiful, like you say nature or glorious and, and take a breath and get back to dealing with your situation.

So we understand the gratitude and starting with the gratitude journal, and there's lots of resources and I know they can go to your website and get information there where you talk about it.

We can reduce depression, we can help alleviate worry.

Anxiety improves our mental clarity.

I do this in the morning.

It's the first question I ask myself after I'm making my coffee, is today I'm grateful for right?

Or what is the one big thing I want?

Who am I grateful for?

Who am I going to reach out to?

And it's good focus because it starts my day off in a positive way.

And I've seen it.

Things aren't going according to plan.

They spiral down very quickly.

I've seen people spiral down very quickly.

And on the other hand, I seen where they come from, a place of gratitude or something works out for them.

It's really tough when the proverbial hits the fan, right?

There's physical benefits though that come from having gratitude as well, which I never really thought about, but better sleep and I'm curious how this works.

Our immune function can improve.

You talk about, we can lower our blood pressure and symptoms of illness, recovery rates, all those things.

How does gratitude impact those things?

There's some research based that has discovered that has uncovered that I should say.

But as far as how, in my opinion as a non researcher, a non psychologist here, again, I think just by alleviating stress or beginning to diminish stress by focusing on something positive or something that you're grateful for, something good, your stress level, your cortisol level begins to decrease and of course the blood pressure can go down and you're in a better state of mental health.

I think especially we in the west often forget how much the mind and the body interplay and you know, good nutrition and all of those factors, it's all connected and we often chop it apart unfortunately in the way we look at it.

So that's, that's just a 30,000 foot view of how gratitude may affect me help those positive physical aspects.

Well, I think when we have the positive, it just goes hand in hand.

So the body reacts to what we're thinking about.

Right.

How we take care of that.

For someone who's going through a particularly challenging time right now, such as grief or loss, and particularly this time of year, because it's.

How can gratitude offer solace and support.

Healing, I think the recognition, again, you're stepping outside yourself a little bit with gratitude.

You're stepping outside your immediate circumstance and you're beginning to help yourself see that it's not all black, it's not all negative.

Because you said very correctly, you said earlier, when they're focusing on a negative, it easily spirals downward.

Absolutely.

And you can't control it.

But if you allow yourself to be spiraled down but that gratitude helps you break through that and you begin to have.

I think having perspective helps knowing that.

And again, not negating the difficulty of the current situation, but recognizing even though it might feel like it, the rest of your life is not that way.

You do have some things that you can cling to and realize that yeah, it's worthwhile.

Yeah.

And I think there's always a silver lining somewhere.

It's just perspective.

You know, it's like parents.

I talked to a lot of people who they're still blaming their parents for how their life turned out.

And I always tell them the statute of limitations runs out at age 30, so blame them up to 30, but after that you're on your own.

Right.

And it's like Come on, get on with it.

But again, like, my parents weren't perfect.

I loved them.

They grew up, you know, during the war and they were in England at the time and they were immigrants, but I had to drop out of school because of all the fighting and the soldiers and, you know, people dying and bombs.

And they grew up in that environment right in their formative years.

And so very, very challenging.

And so from a parental point of view, they had bad role models.

And so I look at them as, you know, they weren't the best role models as far as, hey, I want to be like you when I grow up.

But they actually taught me what not to be like.

But I could easily rationalize and just go, hey, considering their environment and considering, man, they did pretty good.

And thank you for having me.

Right?

Thanks for having me.

I wouldn't you.

So whatever else they do, thank you for having me.

I have a chance to have a kick at the can here and have fun and experience.

And then from that, you know, my wife and I, we've raised seven.

We've got five and a half grandkids and more coming.

So congratulations.

Yeah, I got lots to be grateful for.

And it's, you know, nowadays when the grandkids come in, that that really helps the gratitude part of it.

But I get that.

How can we then cultivate gratitude not only for the good things in our lives, but also for the challenges that will help us grow?

Is there a couple of quick things besides journaling?

I know you have other tools.

Is there any other strategies for cultivating that gratitude?

Sure.

We talked earlier about reframing, and that is looking at your situation and saying, okay, what is the positive that comes out of it?

So in addition to what else am I grateful for in my.

So you're again looking at that silver lining.

That's something really quick.

What about expressing gratitude?

Find someone to share your gratitude with.

Yeah, absolutely.

Those gratitude notes or gratitude letters, for example, in.

By that, I mean that helps build gratitude in another way.

Okay, let's say you're reframing as one technique and then the journaling.

But as you're journaling, you may come to be grateful for like you were grateful for your.

Your parents.

Well, you could write a letter, not necessarily send it to them, and write just what you told me.

You know, I'm thankful, then I'm grateful that you gave me life, even in this difficult situation.

And so the act often of writing that down, you know, and sometimes it gives you such joy, if you feel comfortable to send it to the person you're grateful for because they appreciate knowing their effect on your life.

I mean, we all do in their ways that we affect others in a positive way many times that we're not aware of.

And so having those little reminders, so little notes, you know, little thank you notes like that, gratitude notes, that's another three numbers.

Well, and it's funny you should say the word appreciation.

And I get this from the younger generations, not, you know, the baby boomers.

I'll be talking to someone, say, I'm talking with you.

And often they go, oh, hey, thanks so much.

I appreciate you.

Yeah, and I hear that a lot.

We actually get a lot from younger people.

And the language they use is I appreciate you, not I'm grateful or I'm gratitude.

Same thing.

It is I appreciate you.

And you know, don't just write it down, but write it down and share it.

You know, if you're grateful for things and then just share with your people, hey, what are you grateful for?

And it's a good question.

And it can be simple things.

It can be simple for, you know, a cold beer on a hot day.

It can be a hot cup of coffee, you know, whatever.

The thing is savoring the moment.

What are the things you can savor in your life?

All right.

And be grateful for.

So what's your final message, Sandy?

Of hope and encouragement for listeners who are maybe striving to find gratitude in the midst of their own personal struggle?

Yes.

Remember that you're not alone.

There are many resources out there.

In addition, I gladly love to serve them.

But there are many other resources as well, blogs to read.

And the other encouragement is reach out to a friend.

That's part of when we are in an adverse situation or stress.

One of the negative effects is feeling isolated.

We're social creatures and we were created to be social beings.

We need each other, whether we sometimes we may so reach out to them.

Yeah, reach out to someone.

And it could be even a professional, you know, professional who's licensed, but a friend to.

To share your situation with someone who has an understanding ear, who gets you.

That's really important as well.

Take time.

Again, the spiritual practice, you know, for me is so important as well, to be focused and grateful and recognize that this is not just a hodgepodge of circumstances.

There's reason behind what happens, even though we may not be able to discover it.

And I think that's especially true when you're going through adversity because.

And you may never know the.

The reasons or the questions.

I mean, Those are the big questions, you know, why person leave this earth at this time when they were doing so much?

I mean you can't but at least recognize and again, that's a step in faith that they're okay.

I don't understand it, but there's gotta be some reason behind it and that helps in dealing with an adverse situation.

Connect with your higher self and resources and every day it's an everyday thing.

Yeah, it's like drinking water, it's like breathing.

What?

Start your day that way and you can usually end up with a good day.

Doesn't mean you're not going to have adversity.

But how you managing, as you say, navigate it, I think is the key.

We'll have all the contact information in our show notes.

You're booked.

Embrace each day with joy.

True Story by Sandy Eggers.

Available on Amazon Kindle.

I believe they can get information at your website and so we'll have all of that in the show notes.

Sandy, always a treat.

Great to see you again and thanks for sharing some insights on gratitude and how that can help us with adversity.

Well, you're very welcome again.

Thank you.

I'm grateful for being on your show and all the best to you in the new year.

You too.

Grateful to have you.

Bye bye now.

As you are listening to this episode, what is one idea that you've heard that has caught your attention and why does it matter so much to you?

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Either sharing this episode or just sharing that insight that occurred to you while you were listening?

Perhaps it is learning how to cultivate gratitude with journaling or how practicing gratitude improves self esteem, enhances relationships and increases happiness.

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Goodby.