Mike Lipkin - Become a Potentiator and Create Breakthroughs with Others

In 3, 2, 1.

Welcome back to Becoming Preferred, the podcast where we dissect the strategies and mindset of those who are not just successful, but irreplaceable in the markets they serve.

Today we have a true master of motivation and persuasion.

Our guest is Mike Lipkin, president of Environics and a strategic coach to global CEOs and the author of 18 books on leadership and and high performance, including his latest book, the Potentiator.

What makes Mike's approach unique is his foundation in deep social values research.

He doesn't just rely on generic platitudes.

He uses proprietary data on human behavior to show you exactly how and why people make decisions, trust certain leaders, and choose one provider over others.

For our audience of entrepreneurs and business professionals, Mike is here to help us unlock the ultimate skill, how to create value from thin air, communicate with irresistible conviction, and transform every single conversation into a high impact trust building event.

If you're ready to stop chasing clients and start magnetically attracting opportunities, this is your masterclass.

Join me now for my conversation with Mike Lipkin.

Well, hi Mike, welcome to the program.

We're delighted to have you and I'm.

Thrilled to be here.

Michael Vickers.

Oh, me too.

We've known each other for, geez, a couple of decades for sure.

And it's always been tough to try and get you onto the show because you are busy.

I know you're traveling around the world and speaking and leading organizations and change within organizations.

So I'm delighted to have you here and I know our listeners are going to get lots of insights and value bombs from you.

So thanks for being here.

A value bomb.

I haven't heard that one before, Michael.

Well, it just blows up.

It's so valuable.

It just blows up and can make a big difference in people's lives.

So hey, but let's get started this way, Mike.

We're going to talk about a number of different things that are very appropriate for today's marketplace.

But let's go back in time.

You're in school, I think you were.

Where were you living?

Where was home?

And what were you going to be when you grow up?

So thank you for that question, Michael.

As folks can hear from my accent, I'm not originally from Yellowknife or Medicine Hat.

I love these names.

I'm originally from a place called Johannesburg, South Africa, but born and raised there.

And so at school, I didn't really know what I wanted to be.

I just knew I wanted to be on a stage somewhere.

And yet at the same time, Michael, the interesting Thing is, I had a stutter.

So imagine wanting to be a sprinter with a limp or imagine wanting to be a pilot and you blind.

I wanted to be a speaker, and yet I also had a stutter.

And yet my desire to be a speaker was greater than my fear of stuttering when I got on a stage.

And so I wanted to be a speaker.

I wanted to somehow be in the spotlight, but not as an actor.

I wanted to bring value.

I always saw myself as a motivator, as a some kind of coach.

I was never good enough to play, therefore, I always wanted to coach.

And I knew somehow it would have to do with business because that's how people make a living.

And so at school, I wanted to communicate, wanted to be a coach.

But I studied.

And.

And if you can believe this, I went to university out of school to study.

I did a BCom.

And that's when I met my wife, who just happened to be studying to become a speech therapist.

So talk about destiny.

Now, at this university, Mike, they had a special program where students could treat students for free.

There's no way I could afford a speech therapist, but I could be the beta that these students practiced on.

Now, when you go for speech therapy, there's a fair amount of touching happening.

They've got to touch your chest, they've got to touch your neck, they've got to stroke you when you're getting panicked.

And so I had all these gorgeous speech and hearing therapists, you know, really taking amazing care of me, and I fell in love with one of them, and then I married her.

Fantastic.

And here I am, the fluent individual I am.

But let me give you this interesting thought, Mike, and that is most people stutter when they nervous.

I. I stutter when I'm relaxed because I don't have to not stutter, not focused.

Whereas on this.

On this call now, Mike, I gotta be super focused.

And I've trained myself to be as articulate and fluent as I can.

And yet every now and then, if I lose concentration, I will stutter.

So for me, concentrating and fluency go hand in hand.

And this is a discipline, a training that I've developed over the past 40 years.

What made you pick the subject matter that you chose or has it evolved?

What did we start out with?

What was your first program?

What was your first training?

What was your lesson?

And how has it evolved over the last couple of decades?

Yeah, really great question, Mike.

So I did my Bachelor of Commerce degree, and then I went into the marketing business.

My first job was an assistant brand Manager at Colgate Palm Olive.

I was responsible for assisting the product manager on what they called Big Red, which was the toothpaste brand at the time.

And then I went from being in marketing at Colgate to being in advertising for a company called Gray Advertising that, that was responsible for launching a new brand of shampoo called Germac into South Africa at the time.

Remember Victoria Principal from Dallas, I think, right?

Oh, yeah, I do.

So this brand, I can't say that that quickly.

And my wife might.

How do you remember that one?

But it's.

Yeah, I think I know who you're talking about.

Correct.

So what happened was Playtex, that was an intimate apparel brand, went into the fast moving consumer goods business by launching shampoo.

And I went to work for the ad agency that had that responsibility.

I spent three years in that organization.

And then what happened, Mike, is I got depressed.

I literally got clinically depressed.

I made a financial mistake.

I started to question myself.

And So I spent 18 months in clinical depression.

It got so bad, Mike, that I had shock therapy to come.

Right now some people go, I'm not sure you have come.

Right, but, but that already was 30 years ago.

And Mike, as I came out of it, I read a book by a man who won the Nobel Prize for literature called William Styron.

He won it for his novel Sophie's Choice.

That was a movie starring Meryl Streep and Kevin Klein as, as you remember.

But anyway, so William Styron suffered from depression and he wrote a book called Darkness Visible about his experience with depression.

I read his book while I was still going through depression.

And when I came out of it, I thought, I'm going to write my own book on depression.

And I called it Lost and Found, My Journey to Hell and Back.

Long story short, it became a bestselling book in South Africa.

And people then started approaching me saying, would you be willing to come into my organization and speak about your experiences?

Because if we think we going through change in Canada, Mike, imagine being in a country that went from being a dictatorship, an apartheid racist state, into a country with the most liberal democracy on the planet.

And where, you know, the 80% that was prevented from voting overnight became the ones in power.

So there was massive change for every South African.

And so I found myself in the right place at the right time, having come out of depression just as many people were going into depression because of the overwhelm and just the volume and the magnitude of change.

So that's why I chose to speak about motivation.

And that's Why I chose to speak about contributing and leading and being the reason why others move forward.

So that in a way chose me, the topic chose me rather than me choose the topic.

Did you learn some strategies?

Because I know you work with leaders and you work with leadership teams and you work helping them develop their executive presence, their personal brands and you help them, you know, handle and navigate complex change.

Is that usually the catalyst that sometimes brings on depression?

And what tools did you come away with and that help you navigate that?

Because if you have that and it's we, I think we know it's chemical, it can also be environmental, I believe.

You know, I've had a bad day and it's usually over by one o' clock in the afternoon and I'm usually fine.

A cup of coffee and I'm happy again.

So I can't relate to that, but I know lots of our listeners do.

How do you manage that or how do you fend off that?

Or do you have, do you see it coming and do you have some management strategies to deal with it?

Yeah, really good question.

So the strategies that I have, I've really built and evolved over time, Mike.

And so at your core you need to have a strategy.

And the best strategy I can provide anyone is the TED Lasso strategy, which is believe.

You know, how many times, Mike, have you had someone say to you when you've told them something, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

Well, my comment to folks is until you believe it, you won't see it.

When you believe it, you will see it.

And so I now believe that things will always turn out just fine.

And here I am, Mike, in my 60s, and I've been through my ups and downs, but now I'm living the dream.

So I'm a late bloomer living the dream.

And I believe that my best days are always ahead of me.

So like you, I now, on any given day, Mike, I'll wake up in what you and I have spoken about.

I'll wake up in the red zone, but I believe that I'll get into the blue zone of possibility.

I know somehow I'm going to dig myself out of any hole.

I'm going to surmount any obstacle and I'm going to end up exactly where I need to be.

Because what I've discovered, Mike, is that if you have the belief and the conviction, you will find your way there.

Now, it's not always clear what that way is, but if you are super clear, you'll find a way.

Guess what?

The way presents itself to you.

And we're living at a time of.

Of what I brand evac.

That's extreme volatility, anxiety, and chaos.

So no one knows exactly how you're going to get there.

We're all pioneers in this new reality.

So it begins with believing.

But then, Mike, as someone who's written a number of books, one of them.

Being this book over here, like 18 of them.

Yeah, you belong here.

Sure, you belong here.

And I wrote this with one of Canada's leading psychiatrists, wonderful woman called Dr. Diane McIntosh.

And.

And there are four hormones that enables the brain to operate at its best.

So the first one, Mike, is oxytocin, which is the love hormone, the connectivity hormone, which is why you and I have spent a lot of time together.

And, Mike, whenever I'm with you, the oxytocin flows freely.

I say that in a purely platonic sense, just so you get it.

Yes, you can be my heterosexual life partner.

Exactly.

Thank you for that.

It's a privilege.

The second is you want those endorphins coursing through your body.

That gives you the energy.

It gives you the sense of being elevated.

And that comes from exercise and activity and laughter and even just listening to music.

The third is serotonin, which are those mood stabilizers.

So being in the sunshine, being in nature, mindfulness and meditation and helping other people gives you that serotonin.

And then the mother of all hormones that enables the brain to really operate at its optimum is of cause, dopamine.

Now, depending on how you produce the dopamine, that can be good or bad for you.

If you look for an external agent to give you the dopamine, you could go down some pretty dangerous paths.

I create dopamine, Mike, by taking immaculate care of myself, by doing what you and I are doing right now, by setting myself a task and by reaching my objectives.

And then ultimately, dopamine comes from helping others.

It's called the helper's high.

So the thought that we could have thousands of people benefiting from this message, Mike, gives me a dopamine hit in advance.

So I now am so good at creating dopamine that just thinking about something great floods my brain with all four of these pleasure hormones.

And this is why I feel as though the older I get, the more efficient and effective I'm becoming at using all this brain horsepower that I have.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it sure does.

It's interesting.

And as you say it, I'm realizing I said we've got a majority of the population is having Hormonal imbalance.

They don't have these things.

I know you work out seven days a week.

You and I have that in common.

We work out at least six, for sure.

We get the cardio going, we get the lifting going.

And we're older, but boy, we look years younger than we are, at least in our own minds.

And our eyes are usually going to at the same time.

So I think that soft focus comes from just old eyes.

But you actually raised an interesting.

And you talked about it.

So let's unpack this.

You talked about red zone and blue zone.

I know what those mean.

So let's talk about what those mean and unpack that for the listeners, because I think there's lots of value there.

Basically, you call it two structures of mind, if I recall, in your work.

So you're either operating in your red zone, which is anxiety, or the blue zone, which is where the energy comes from, and it's unleashing that energy.

Why don't you talk about how it starts with the red zone and where most people are and why we get there?

Thank you, Mike.

Exactly.

This is the core of everything else that I talk about.

So when you're operating in the red zone, you look at your future and you see it as a problem, and then you're afraid of it.

And then your reaction is to your fear, not to the actual issue.

So Woody Allen once said, I've had many problems in my life and most of them never happened.

Right.

A lot of us, we see the future, we imagine it's a problem, we're afraid of it, and then we react to our fear.

And so it becomes a vicious cycle and you become smaller over time because your mission is to protect yourself.

So you withdraw into yourself.

So it's triggering the fear, it's triggering that fear.

And which then leads to.

We're reacting to what that fear is.

What is the definition of fear?

Appearing real.

Yes.

False evidence appearing.

Right.

And then it stays in that loop and we spiral down, which probably feeds that inner self and can contribute to depression and control 100%.

We hide in a bottle or we.

Hide and then the blue zone is.

It's the opposite side of that coin.

Right.

So the blue zone is you look at your future and you're excited by it.

So, Mike, no matter how old I get, I will believe that my best days are always ahead of me.

Yeah, I agree.

And I. I'm much better as a 60 something than I was as a 50 something or a 40 something.

When I look at who I was as a 30 something, Mike.

I'm embarrassed.

I'm embarrassed.

I'm amazed I got through all of that unscathed.

Yeah, yeah.

So I look at my future and I'm super pumped by my purpose as a motivator.

And being on this call with you serves that purpose because I have a passion for that purpose.

My purpose is inspiring my actions, it's inspiring my communication.

And so every conversation every day is growing me and expanding my impact.

So I'm unleashing my energy.

I'm not just trying to contain my anxiety.

And so for me now, Mike, every day without pain is a great day.

So if I can work out and I don't hurt afterwards, man, that's fantastic.

And then number two, Mike, because I have this mission, I want to make sure I'm in good shape to execute against the mission.

So I'm focused on leading a life where everything I do is expanding my capacity.

Now that doesn't mean I live like a monk.

I mean, I still enjoy my 25 year old single malt, but I'm only going to have one tot, as it were, and I'm only going to have that if I've earned it.

So when you live in, it doesn't reward.

Yeah, exactly.

Everything starts to make sense in the blue zone in a way that it could never make sense in the red zone.

That's interesting.

And you know, I look at it this way where people's attitudes and that shifts their mindsets.

A lot of people are, they're like boats out in the ocean without rudders.

And in the red zone it's wherever the wind's blowing us.

They're reacting to it, they're fearful what storms could get me where the hazards and they have a hard time navigating where in the blue zone you actually have a destination.

It might be a thousand miles away, but you're moving towards the destination.

You've got a rudder on your boat and yeah, you're gonna have all those obstacles that show up, but that's what gets you through it, that's what helps you build that resilience.

And I think that's what when we talk about motivation, a lot of people believe and you know, it's not rah rah.

I believe your motivation and we're in agreement on this is where we give people tools, strategies, tactics, frameworks, which, you know, the analogy I would use is you're working on a 14 inch monitor with green monochrome with a wired keyboard with a dial up modem and you're doing your job And Mike Lipkin comes in and gives you a 32 inch monitor with a wireless keyboard with fiber optic.

You're doing the same chores, the same jobs, but boy, you're excited, you're motivated because you have tools now in order to do what you do and improve your productivity and accelerate it.

So it's putting that rudder and then bringing the tools, and I think that's where your motivation comes into play.

It's not, you know, rah, rah, rah, you're actually giving them frameworks in which they can help themselves and navigate themselves.

Yes, Mike, I do.

And, you know, I need things to be simple because I don't understand beyond simple.

Now, Einstein said simplicity is the highest expression of intelligence.

So, Mike, my key brand now is what I brand is the Potentiator.

I wrote a book called the Potentiator.

Where is it?

Here we are.

And we'll have all of that in.

The show notes too.

And it's available where people get their books.

So yeah, it's available on Amazon and there's the audio version on audible and you should download it and tell all your friends.

But the potentiator, Mike, very simply is someone who creates breakthroughs by helping others play at their best.

So on this call, Mike, and you doing a phenomenal job.

You are my potentiator.

The way you conducting this interview, the questions you're asking me, you are setting me up for success.

So the potentiator is someone who succeeds at other success, not at their expense.

So that's my philosophy right now.

And I'm not a good Samaritan, Mike, trust me.

I am as much of a capitalist as anyone watching or listening to this.

But I know that the most valuable currency is reciprocation, right?

You do great things for great people.

They will reciprocate and everyone benefits.

I think, Mike, those folks who thriving in these times right now, I think they are reaping the karma that they've spent a lifetime building or growing.

So just over the weekend, and you probably are familiar with a company called Aegon Insurance and wfg.

And so I was in front of a thousand folks with a wonderful guy called Carl Meldrum, who's a legend in this field.

And he called me because 20 years ago, Mike, he said I was in a meeting and he was impressed by what I said.

And somehow he woke up 20 years later and thought, I want to reach out to Mike.

So in other words, if you are the potentiator, you create this goodwill that you can then harvest over time.

On the other hand, if you haven't done good things for good people.

You are suffering right now because the so called chickens are coming home to roost.

Or the bad chickens are coming home to roost.

You're right.

Makes sense.

Yeah, it sure does.

Well, the definition out of your book for the potentiator is a person who increases other people's strength and effectiveness.

Someone who brings people together so they can achieve more.

Someone who helps others actualize their dreams.

Someone who creates breakthroughs by helping others play at their best.

And so it's a.

You know, I mean, by the way, I'm impressed that you've got that definition.

It's a great quote.

I'm reminded of story.

Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton Oilers.

You know, a great hockey player, obviously had good hands, had a good protector.

But the value of Gretzky to the Edmonton Oilers and the teams he played on, the Rangers, Los Angeles, was not him so much.

It's just everyone else played better.

He was the potentiator.

He was unselfish.

He was the one.

Everyone played better and wanted to play better.

And so the question we always have to ask ourselves, are the people in our lives, in our relationships, our partners, are we potentiators for them?

Are they better because of us?

You know, my wife quotes an Alanis Morissette lyric, and she gave me this 20, 25, 30 years ago, and she says, you're the platform by which I can jump beyond myself.

And, And I thought that was sweet and it was kind, but that's our job as leaders within our organizations, is to be potentiators for the people we serve.

So I think it's a great term.

And again, it's the synergy, it's the synergy you're creating.

Are we better?

Is the sum greater than what we started with?

Does that make sense?

It does.

And I'll give you a wonderful saying out of Africa, and I quoted this on Sunday, it goes like this.

Umuntu ungumuntu umbantu.

And you know what that means, Mike?

Of course, yeah.

It's no idea.

It means a person is a person only because of other people.

Right.

So I am.

Because you are.

And so I am someone who knows I'm only as good as the people I surround myself with and even more importantly, the contribution I make to them.

So I always want to make sure that I am a net contributor to the quality of their life and therefore they're going to want to reciprocate the favor to me.

So over time, Mike, I've now branded myself, I've trademarked the word potentiator to the point where when I have suits made and we living in an age where Indochino will make you a suit cheaper than you can buy an off the rack suit and what I put in the inside pocket is Mike Lipkin, AKA the Potentiator.

I actually respond better to the name potentiator than I do Mike Lipkin.

Because my personal identification now, Mike, is I am the Potentiator.

So if I succeed and no one else is succeeding, there's no pleasure in that for me at all.

Which is why I will never ever be a gambler.

Because for me to go into a casino and win millions of dollars but not have made a difference, I don't need that.

Yes, I want to make the money, but only because I've helped other people make the money or achieve their results or become incredibly successful, the most rewarding words I can ever hear is, Mike, you helped me do things I couldn't have done on my own.

As I tell folks, Mike, when I give a talk, I say, hey, I'm not doing this for the money.

I'm going to take your money.

I have to take your money so you appreciate what you get.

It's an exchange of value.

Yeah, it's an exchange of value, exactly.

But I'm not doing it for the money.

Right?

I agree 100%.

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And now back to my conversation with Mike Lipkin.

Well, you know you're obviously convicted and you talk about this and why conviction is really your force multiplier and how it can make you unstoppable in the marketplace.

Let's kind of switch gears a little bit.

There's lots of turmoil.

You talked about the marketplace, and people are fearful.

AI is coming down the pipeline.

There's always something.

It just seems like there's always an issue in North America, globally.

We've got global conflicts going on everywhere.

You know, the world's on fire.

People are scared, people are fearful.

And you talk about with all this change coming on, the best way we can be ready for change is by being change ready.

And that means we can monetize our fear is to.

By helping others be better, safer, and more confident.

So when you solve real problems for people, you lift people up and you create value worth paying for, and you build their confidence and their wellbeing in the process.

Unpack that a little bit.

And what can we do in today's world?

What are some tangible steps, one or two things that, hey, I might be fearful, worried about my job.

Am I going to still have a job because of the new technologies coming on?

What can I do to insulate myself and navigate through this kind of turbulence?

Yeah, no, great, great question.

So the way you get change ready, and I'll just focus on the three key ways to be changed, really.

And Mike, the first is this is the gateway to everything else is be curious.

So when you talk about AI and my favorite engine is Perplexity, I've got to the point, Mike, where I don't know that I can even go to the bathroom without consulting Perplexity anymore.

It allows me to do so many more things than I otherwise could have.

And so I. I'm curious as to what AI can do, number one.

Number two, I'm curious as to who I can become.

I'm curious as to what makes Mike Vickers tick.

You're interviewing me, but at some point I'm going to interview you because I want to know what you're all about.

So curiosity is the gateway to everything.

Number two is having a plan.

So not the plan itself being important, but.

But having a strategy.

So for me, strategy and plan are interchangeable.

So my strategy is to take whatever's happening around me and convert it into motivation.

So as I say to folks, you don't need Mike Lipkin.

You don't need Mike Vickers when everything is copacetic.

You need us when things are at their most chaotic and you need a Sherpa to pull you up the mountain, or you need some kind of guide to help you navigate your way through the unknown have that plan.

And every plan has got three components to it.

It's got a why.

What is it that motivates you at the deepest level?

For me, it's to get people excited.

It's got a what.

What's the objective you want to achieve?

And for me, Mike, that is.

It's a function of impacting thousands of people.

It's a function of making millions of dollars, but it's also a function of creating new products every year.

So I've just published a book called you Belong Here with a leading psychiatrist.

And Mike, I'm in the process of writing an amazing book right now.

It's called By Accident, on Purpose with a guy called Dave Patchel Evans, who's the founder and owner of the Good Life chain of fitness clubs.

So between the two of us, we are combining our experiences and what we've discovered, Mike, is things that start as an accident can turn into your life purpose.

So that's the thrust of the book.

So that's the what and then the how is your strategy for achieving that.

And the essence of your strategy is to know what the value is that you bring to others.

So I give people the insights that excite them into doing things they wouldn't have done.

So begin by being curious.

Have that plan.

And then the third one, Mike, as important as the first two, sustain and enhance your appetite.

Because someone once said to me, mike, I can teach you many things.

I cannot teach you how to be hungry.

So I know that at any moment, Mike and I know earlier on we were having a conversation around, are you overwhelmed right now?

Yeah, I'm overwhelmed and I'm fatigued.

I lose my appetite.

So whatever it takes to stay hungry, that's what you've got to do.

Steve Jobs, just before he passed, gave a commencement address to the graduates at Stanford University.

It's now a classic.

If people haven't watched it, go to YouTube and watch the Steve Jobs Stanford commencement address.

But his final four words, mike.

And I want to tell folks this, because I could have said what he said.

He said, stay hungry, stay foolish.

And by foolish, he didn't mean stupid.

He spoke about be foolish, as in have such a passion for something that other people think it's foolish.

But to you, that's where your fire comes from.

So be curious, have a plan, stay hungry.

You know, I love that I've had the fortune over my career to work for a number of Warren Buffett's companies and to actually open for him at different events.

Wow.

And he's got A great quote that goes right along with that.

He goes, food always tastes best when you're hungry.

And he goes, stay hungry.

So that's right.

I think that fits right now so perfect.

Just one small thing.

Don't take us down the buffet path because we can both spend a lot of time there.

But I love the quote when he says, be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.

Yeah.

So right now a lot of people are fearful.

Therefore, be greedy for all the opportunities that you can pursue, but also all the opportunities you can help those fearful people become greedy around.

Yeah, it's.

There's so much opportunity there.

And, you know, I tell people this and I believe this is true.

I see a new way to make a million dollars every week.

And maybe not every week, but every two weeks.

It's just the energy.

What do you want to chase?

And opportunity.

And so I see the glass as half full.

I tend to be optimistic there.

But there's always opportunity.

If you'll stop and reflect and look at that.

And then it's, how do we turn this adversity into an advantage?

So you work, for instance, with high performing executives who inevitably face setbacks.

In your experience, what is the one mental habit that separates the executives who are stalled by failure from those who rapidly convert it into an advantage?

Wow.

So I think it's like, you know, back of hand, front of hand.

And by that I mean, Mike, they've got a dual capacity.

The first thing is what drives them is that problem.

What drives them is the magnitude of that challenge.

So they live to resolve that problem.

They live to resolve that challenge.

They don't live for the easy.

You know, someone said there's only two ways to do something.

The right way and the easy way.

Right.

So A, they.

That's what turns them on.

And then B, they've got a belief in their adaptability and their versatility and their agility to meet that challenge not by themselves, but with others.

So there's a natural tendency that I think successful people at every level have, which is immediately to reach out and ask themselves, who can help me rise to this challenge?

They don't want to be the hero with a thousand helpers.

They want to be what C calls the Level 5 leader who surrounds themselves with extraordinary people that together will find a way or make a way.

One of the best things anyone can ever say to me, Mike, is when we having a conversation and I say something and they go, ha, I never thought of it that way before.

Yeah.

So successful executives, they live for the challenge.

They believe in their ability to meet the challenge.

They know they've got the versatility and the agility.

But most importantly, their knowledge is not just what to do.

It's knowing who knows what to do.

Yeah, and it could be a lost deal, a lost product.

And the instinct sometimes is to panic and overreact, but they definitely develop that habit of reframing it.

And some of the, you know, the best leaders asked the question, what did this setback teach us about the market that we didn't know yesterday?

So they treat it as a.

Not as a punishment, but as an expensive, high value market research.

I'm reminded of the story of the New Coke.

And, you know, they came out with the New Coke and I was a Dr. Pepper guy, so Coke wasn't a big deal, but New Coke came out and it was just a dismal failure.

Just the thing just collapsed.

It basically really, really hurt the brand.

They let go of the guy whose big idea was.

And then they had a new CEO come in.

He came in, the first thing he did was hire that guy back again.

And they said, why'd you hire that guy back again?

He cost you guys $1 billion.

And he says, exactly.

He said, we spent $1 billion figuring out what wasn't working.

I said, I'm not losing that guy.

Exactly.

It's all how we reframe that, and that goes to our resilience and our learning.

So.

Well, Mike, the very important point I want to make here, because just like you, 25 has been an amazing year for me.

And I'd say people ask me whether I get nervous before an event, and I go, no, I don't, because I've got a 98% success rate, which means 98 out of 100 talks are going to go just perfectly.

But the two that don't are excruciatingly painful.

Now, what I say to folks is, you got to keep moving forward, even though you may have more than a 2% chance of an excruciating failure.

Because if it doesn't sting, Mike, if it doesn't hurt, you're not going to learn from it.

So there's certain pain.

There's good pain, and then there's bad pain.

Bad pain, for example, is you sit too long, you eat too much, you put on too much weight, and guess what?

You're going to start feeling pain.

The good pain is when you work out so hard that you now, the next day have got aches and pains in places you didn't even know you had muscles.

So the challenge facing all of us is how do we go through the good pain to learn?

And how do we preempt or prevent ourselves going through the bad pain which comes from not doing the right things?

Great answer.

We've got a lot of entrepreneurs, professionals, executives, C level executives that listen to the show.

If there was one or two things that you would tell them, hey, I got lots of change going on.

We've got lots of turmoil.

There's lots of turbulence in the marketplace.

Here's one or two things that you can start doing tomorrow that can start making your life better.

Where would you point them?

Yeah.

So Stephen Covey had a wonderful phrase.

He said, the main thing is to keep the main thing.

The main thing.

Now, what's the main thing for you?

What is it that you're extraordinary at?

What is it that gives you pleasure?

What is it that you can monetize?

What is it that is your engine?

And then keep on double clicking on getting better at that, keep on using it, keep on developing those muscles.

And my keep on seeing every day as day one around your ability to develop that muscle.

So Jeff Bezos says it's always day one.

So I'm having this conversation with you, and both of us are engines of enthusiasm, but I'm conducting this call as though it's the very first and the most important call I'm ever going to have, because I'm having it with Michael Vickers.

And I want to make sure that Michael believes this is one of the best conversations he could have had.

So no matter what's going on around you, no matter what's in front of you, no matter what's to the side or to the back, focus on that main thing that you know is going to be the engine that pulls you and the people around you forward.

Mike, this was fantastic.

If you're looking for tailored experiences to inspire your team to greatness, you're looking for keynotes, workshops, or webinars.

Prepare to be inspired, motivated, and empowered.

And Mike, I know your sessions are more than just speeches.

They're catalysts for extraordinary achievement and profound change.

So seize that opportunity.

Transform yourself and your team.

With Mike.

Well, it's Mike Lipkin dot com.

We'll have all your contact information in the show notes.

And Mike, we got to do this again.

Absolutely.

Well, Michael Vickers, it's been an honor and a privilege and a slice to spend the last 45 minutes with you.

And look, for those of you, your listeners or viewers who don't know, Michael and I are already partnering on some great events.

So yeah, you should hire Mike Lipkin.

But even better, hire Michael Vickers and Mike Lipkin.

Together we can take care of a whole day.

Absolutely.

And we've got some great opportunities.

Great plug.

Always appreciate that, Mike.

Appreciate you being here.

Thank you very much, Mike.

See you soon.

Cheers.

As you're listening to this episode, what is one idea that you've heard that's caught your attention and why does it matter so much to you?

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