Shay Thieberg - LinkedIn Strategies, Tactics and Frameworks

In 3, 2, 1.

Welcome back to Becoming Preferred, the podcast that arms you with the strategies to stop chasing and start attracting your ideal clients.

I'm your host, Michael Vickers, and if you're a business professional or entrepreneur, you know the struggle.

You have an incredible service.

By cutting through the noise to establish yourself as the trusted authority to feels impossible.

Today we are tackling the single most powerful B2B platform, LinkedIn.

It's time to stop using your profile as a dusty online resume and start transforming it into a definitive lead generation engine.

Our guest and his team have cracked the code on building genuine authority and measurable revenue through a high conversion LinkedIn strategy.

He's here to share the secrets to becoming the preferred provider.

And in your niche, we're diving into everything from the critical shift your profile must take to the high converting framework for direct messaging and Shay's simple, actionable advice you can implement today.

Get ready to take notes because this episode is how you master The Art of B2B on LinkedIn.

Join me now for my conversation with Shay Thybert.

Well, hey, Shay, welcome to the program.

We're delighted to have you.

Thank you, Michael.

Good to be here.

Hey.

Hey.

I'm really excited about this and you're speaking to us today.

You're in Tel Aviv.

Next to Tel Aviv.

Yeah.

Really close by.

Well, very good.

And just from a timely point of view, there's a lot going on in the world right now and so our hearts are with you and just in general, just some awful things going on in the world.

Thank you for this escapism.

It will be a nice one to have.

There you go.

Exactly.

And peaceful.

Well, I'm excited about this.

You're a specialist on LinkedIn and we love LinkedIn and we encourage our clients and our listeners to be on LinkedIn before we get there and how to develop a strategy maybe to make us prefer heard on LinkedIn and they can use the tool to its maximum benefit for us.

How did Shay get to be Shay?

Let's go back.

You're in school.

You're deciding what you want to be when you grow up.

And that wasn't too long ago because you're a young man.

Yeah, I'm about to be 33, so it was not that long ago, but should I go back to high school or.

Sure, you're in high school.

You're playing sport, you're playing soccer.

Football.

You're.

What are you doing?

I'm playing basketball.

Till this day, I'm playing basketball.

Lakers fan over here.

I need to wake up early.

Mornings in order to watch some games because of the different time zones.

But, Michael, the most fascinating thing about my high school days actually happened when I almost got kicked off school.

I remember vividly when my teacher called me to meet the principal during the summer and she told me, hey, Shay, with those grades and the way that you interfere with your peers and teachers, I'm not sure I'm.

I think you're going to be kicked out.

And I took it personally because I was a really good friend and I wasn't that of a.

Of a nuts one.

Like, I was just a regular kid doing basketball thing, talking.

I had adhd.

I felt that no one got me.

Like, I felt misunderstood.

And I remember going home and the day after on my own terms and without consulting anyone.

And I was a young person.

I got back to school, to the principal, and it's a summertime, no one should be in school knocking on her door and begging for another chance.

And she gave me that chance.

And I took myself and I started to take personal tutors and working on myself.

And I think that was a lesson that I learned by myself, that I can control my own life and path.

Because ever since this opportunity given to me, I took it with both of my hands.

And later on to get accepted to my first degree, my second degree, I always had those obstacles.

And every time I saw one, I took the challenge and made the efforts by myself.

So this hike.

Thank you for this question.

It's really nice to do this throwback and go back to this pivotal moment that actually changed and helped me build my character.

Yeah.

What's interesting is the fact and what I'm interested in, because I can relate to you.

I can relate to you on this.

And, you know, I had a guest, and she's an expert on neurodivergent people who are neurodivergent who see the world a little differently.

And as she's speaking, I'm going, you know what?

I might be on this spectrum.

And she goes, most people are on particular entrepreneurs because similar stories.

You know, I was disruptive.

I felt it was boring.

It's like, why are we doing this?

This makes more sense.

It was challenging the norms.

And so the fact that I'm more interested in that.

When you're in school, what was it that was causing you to look at those things and go.

Because you were seeing the world differently and you've led that disruption, if you will.

Let's call it a disruption.

And maybe you didn't have the filters on that.

You do today, right?

Like we not filters on.

But you've applied that to a business model as well.

And go, how do we disrupt what's what?

How do we work within this complexity and make things simple?

So things probably didn't make sense.

Does that ring a bell?

Does that sound familiar?

It is because everyone told me that I have ADHD and they were trying to give me all those Ritalin pills and stuff and I never took even one, I never even tried it.

And today looking back, I can tell you that my ADHD is my superpower.

Exactly.

Being able to navigate between tons of daily tasks and employees.

I have 30 something clients, 12 employees, projects I'm lecturing, I'm doing so many things in one day without my adhd I don't think I would never be able to navigate between them.

I agree.

And the tools and the complexity.

This is why people who you see and this is what my guest said, the top influencers, the people who are really leading the way, they're all, they found their home.

We have tools in order to broadcast and to train.

So we just, just think differently.

And people don't understand how you think but you just connections where people don't see connections.

And even the top companies, Microsoft, they look for people who can do that because they see the world different.

So Bill Gates on the spectrum, you know, Michael Dow, you got all these people who same thought processes.

And so we're going to bring that, we're going to unpack that and how it applies to business because you don't have to be neurodivergent or even on a spectrum.

No, but it's process and you're looking at different ways in new ways that most people don't look at things.

And I think that's the story.

Really.

Yeah.

Thank you for that.

By the way.

Do you know what's the meaning of my name?

No.

It's a gift.

So I'm looking at life like I got this gift.

Someone else will look at ADHD as an obstacle, as something holding him back.

I'm looking at stuff that happening in my life as a gift, like my name.

So this is how I'm operating and looking at the world.

It's perfect.

It's perfect.

And we want people to understand that's a good thing.

It's a good thing.

So what we used to think was a handicap or this person's not advantage.

It's just a different way of learning, a different way of seeing the world.

And we need that way to look at the world because who says the other way is the right way.

And it obviously isn't because we exist, right?

And so we see the world differently.

And I know I see the world differently, I function differently, I'm the same way.

I look at different things and I see the connections, I see how they're related to each other and I can see where there's opportunity.

So what you say there's gifts everywhere and it's just about, you know, people panic, they worry about things and it's.

Open up your eyes all opportunities.

So why LinkedIn?

So you're coming out of college, you're in business and you decided to choose LinkedIn as a path.

What made you pick that first thing first?

LinkedIn picked me and it's actually happened during college and not after college because as part of my studies I had to do practical stuff in order to practice.

I studied interactive communication, ux, marketing, lots of stuff.

So the university took me to be their social media guy and it was in 2016 and in that year Microsoft just bought LinkedIn.

So I came to my boss, I told her we have to go on LinkedIn.

Something is going around here.

It's not super common for a company like Microsoft buying such a big company like LinkedIn like a social media platform.

She told me, Shea, Instagram just launched Instagram stories.

Let's invest over there now.

Michael Back in the days I used to do video editing, photography.

So I found it irritating that content that I'm about to produce to Instagram stories will be deleted after 24 hours.

So with my Israeli sassiness, I went and I opened up without telling anyone, the Reichman University, the biggest private University in Israel LinkedIn page.

Within a year this page was selected to be among the top five pages in Israel.

Then I met my partner and we said let's do it, let's go on LinkedIn.

Nobody ever dealt with LinkedIn before.

We have something over here.

We felt like Adam and Eve, only HR people used to do let's take LinkedIn to the marketing realm.

And we started by doing, we call it flm Founder led marketing Establish thought leadership for lots of startups in Israel.

So for founders, stakeholders, decision makers and then we evolved into company page management, employer branding on LinkedIn paid performance and fast forward for today, already 12 people established company and working globally.

No, it's interesting and you know I've always been aware of LinkedIn but we've only in the last four or five years really been active in using employing it is it.

Do you still see it as a to your point, HR used it from A resume perspective.

It was kind of like that's where you would recruit from.

They had the recruiting model, but now we have sales navigator and for sales teams and a lot of our audience are sales professionals and stuff.

So what's one of the first things, if I'm a professional, an entrepreneur or a sales professional, what's one of the first things I should be looking at to make sure LinkedIn's working for me?

Sure.

So we're calling it the LinkedIn trifecta.

LinkedIn can trifect three main departments, HR, which you mentioned, sales and also marketing.

Now, in order to serve them all on the best way that you can ever possibly think, we call it, we call it ROL.

So you have ROI, we call it ROL return on LinkedIn how we can actually measure our investment in LinkedIn and making sure that we're not only following KPI's amount of followers and stuff, but actual tangible stuff like for salespeople, MQLs, for example, or inbound leads.

So for salespeople, my go to tip is to stay constant with their posting game.

But not only super mercuterial and salesy posting.

Sometimes when I'm lecturing to salespeople and I'm doing it quite a bit, the first thing that they think that you should do on LinkedIn is to start bombarding people with messages.

But if nobody encountered you before, nobody ever saw you before, and you suddenly sliding to their DMs, they don't trust you, they don't trust you, they don't need you.

So I'll give you a quick example.

Since this September I got almost 90 leads organically to my business and I didn't do anything for that.

The stuff that I priorly did for it was building trust, making people want to work with me.

How did I did it?

No campaigns, no messages.

The only thing that they did is posting valuable insightful tips, hacks and content for people to be able to use.

Lots of people really afraid that if they're going to post their thoughtful and perspectives or knowledge, people will steal it.

But if you believe in yourself enough, nobody can do the thing that you do the best, right?

You share the value.

I always say you can go ahead and learn how to change your engine, but the day that it will actually happen, you don't have the tools and you don't have the experience to actually do it on yourself.

So you want to go ahead and work with the best person that can do it for you.

And this is my belief, whenever it comes to LinkedIn, I want to educate people about when to post, how to post, what to post, about how to send messages.

If you're trying to score before you went on the pitch, you're already losing.

Because if you're bombarding people with tons of messages and hoping that something will stick, I always, as a media person, communication person, always say to my students, think about the 99% of the people who haven't answered you and might think you're a spammer at the moment.

So you want to be laser focused with the people that you're approaching.

The best scenario is to send them a message and they already heard about you.

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

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And now back to my conversation with Shay Thiberg.

I think like I say, you get a lot of younger.

I know in our sales training world we get a lot of young men in their mid early 20s.

They work for these SaaS companies and they're immediately pitching and so they're going in and they pitch the client and.

They'Re right away Belfort style.

Yeah, let me show you that.

And people are gun shy with that versus on the other end with becoming preferred.

We believe in the relationship.

This is why I was delighted to have you as a guest.

For me it's relationship.

So we'll reach out to you and I'll go hey, came across your profile, you know where you have mutual friends.

I'd love to connect with you professionally so the connection requests get high.

For me personally I'm up 50, 60% easily on my connection request.

And then I know they're checking me out.

So when they go and check me out, they're looking for, I believe they're looking for relevance.

Is this person going to be valuable to me or not?

And what's the key?

So now they're checking you out.

So our headers, our profile, those things need to be optimized so that they fit the narrative that we're trying to tell the story.

And I know you, you believe this and you offer this and you teach this.

And then on our second request or let go up might be, hey, by the way, if there's someone in my network you'd love to meet and I can introduce for you, please don't hesitate to reach out.

And so we give you a gift.

We call it the reciprocity.

I'm not selling because most people, and salespeople particularly have solutions to problems.

If there's no problem raised, don't talk about your solution.

Value, value, value what's valuable to that target market.

Does that fit within line?

It is.

But I'm doing an initial step before.

I don't want to get into your personal life.

So this question will be about your professional life.

So the thing that I'm doing, if this one is my icp, my prospect, right, I want to reach out to him or her.

I'm holding myself, I'm telling myself I'm going to reach out next week because in this week I'm going to like his posts, right?

I'm going to comment on one of his posts.

I want him to see that I view these posts.

I will try to draw his or her attention.

And only then I will post myself, obviously.

And only then I will approach them.

I'll give you another quick tip for your listeners.

People really like to ask me about the LinkedIn algo.

So a quick hack.

Whenever you are commenting or connecting with people, they will be the next in line to see your next post.

So if I want to draw attention, I'm a sales rep in a SaaS company looking to book more demos.

Okay, make your ICP list, go ahead, comment, like, connect with them and then start to post.

They will be the first in line to see your next vote.

They will perceive you as a more professional guy, they will see you more oftenly.

And only then when you approach them, they were waiting for you to approach already because you cooked them for quite a bit.

By the way, I'm calling this entire strategy.

You heard about B2B.

You heard about B2C.

I'm calling it T2B Trust to Business.

Because I saw one of your articles by the way about it in B2B marketing.

It's a long lasting cycle like build relationship in one day or one message.

You right, yeah.

No, that makes sense.

And I think if you're coming from contribution it makes all the difference in the world.

Now I heard on commenting and this is why we can bust the myths or not.

If you're going to go like somebody's post and you go like that and you're going to comment, comment at least two or three sentences so that it's not just I liked it actually.

Amazing, right?

And then maybe ask a question to create engagement because what we're doing, what you're saying is we're identifying our icp, here's our mark, here's our ideal client profile.

Then what we want to do is connect.

So we want to form the connection, then we want to create engagement.

And that comes before conversion into anything because until they tell us there's a problem, they're going to figure out what you do and they're going to check you out.

I think most people probably go in and check you out and take care of it when it comes to liking or commenting.

Any suggestions on there or hacks that in order to speed up that process?

Sure.

LinkedIn few months ago launched impressions for comments.

Have you seen this one?

Yes.

So a really nice story.

A few weeks ago I commented on one of the biggest, most important influential VC Personas in Israel.

Right.

So I'm commenting on his post.

He wrote the post, I'm writing his wave but I'm writing a thoughtful comment.

Michael.

I think I had two and a half paragraphs over there like really thoughtful comment and likes are stacking up and then I'm seeing that I have almost 3,000 impressions to my comment.

Didn't wrote the post.

I know everything about the answer that I was giving him from the top of my hand.

It's my expertise and I got 30 new connection requests from founders VCs Personas connecting with me.

So I'm telling people that having hard time to post, just comment on other people post thoughtfully and that will give you the most engaging.

It's a growth engine because you'll see who like your post your comment and then you can go ahead and connect with them.

People are seeing you more.

It's affecting your entire presence on LinkedIn.

That's interesting.

So you're saying connect with them, comment on them like their posts, warm them up, warm them up first in order to do that, that's interesting.

Good insight.

And a lot of people say they rush into the transaction.

And LinkedIn is not about that, it's about building those relationships.

So it's finding the value.

What about groups?

What about groups on LinkedIn?

Are they a good way to go?

And then I want to move into, you know, some of the advertising, some of the things because there's pros and cons of that.

But what about joining groups and then what's the best behavior for when we belong to a group instead of soliciting people within the group, I know you'd be again delivering content, I'm assuming.

Sure.

So groups are not quite there yet, like on Facebook.

Like I think LinkedIn still got some work to do on everything related to groups.

But I'll try to give our listeners one or two tips that can actually help them.

If you're looking for one of your prospects and you cannot reach him out, I don't know, you don't have LinkedIn Premium or you ran out of credits to send messages.

Maybe happened to you, maybe this Persona is not reachable at the moment.

He blocked it.

When you go to someone else's profile and you scroll down to the bottom, you will always see his interest within his interest.

Michael, you can see the groups that this person is associated to if you will get accepted to one of those groups.

And it's super easy to get accepted.

People don't know.

But you get five messages to people that are members with you at the same group.

Right.

So you can go ahead, you can see in which groups someone is part of, go to his profile, ask to join the group and then you can message them.

And LinkedIn is also giving you, and that's the best thing ever, a mutual common ground.

It's telling you, Michael, you and Shai are both part of leadership Think thank group.

This is one of the groups that I'm a part of and so it's giving you a common ground and then I can send you a message.

Hey, Michael, I saw that both of us are part of this amazing group.

Saw your last post or whatever.

I don't need to teach you this one.

No.

And that's the key to it is like I say, delivering value and asking questions when it comes to responding to a post.

Sometimes, let's say you're working quite a few people in your icp.

Are there AI tools like chat?

Can I take the post?

And from a hack point of view, because a lot of times you get brain dead.

You know, you got so many to do just to speed up that response and give something thoughtful.

In other words, have you developed any prompts that might be.

Take this post, give me a human five sentence comment, whatever, anything there or tools that speed up that process a little bit?

Sure.

It's important to mention that I was selected by LinkedIn as a certified marketing expert.

I'm one of 30 global experts.

So as a byproduct of that I'm not allowed to use any third party automations on LinkedIn.

But obviously I'm using side of LinkedIn, ChatGPT and whatever.

So I do take some posts that I really need some help to articulate my answers.

I do use them, I always give them my personal perspective and go over everything.

But I will surprise you during the weekend.

I build with Lovable.

You heard about lovable, the AI program?

I built a program that analyzing your entire LinkedIn analytics and giving you really cool insights about your posts, your audiences, your best performing impressions and comments and everything.

So I launch it during the weekend and I already got 800 users using it.

People are sharing it online.

We can share it with your listeners as well.

So now I discovered that instead of just working hard to try to navigate what's working for me and using prohibited automations, I built an outside of LinkedIn program exporting my analytics, putting it out there and then I'm getting a full picture of everything that they do on LinkedIn that I'll share it with you.

You will love this one.

Yeah, that's good.

We'll put that in the show notes too and then people can take care of it.

Because the key is always, you know, what do I say?

And I've even done it.

I've gone in and taken a post, stuck it over into let's call it Chat, GBT or whatever, AI Gemini everybody and go hey, this is really good.

I want something thoughtful, humanized to respond to it.

That I want to create a response from the writer and ask a question.

At the end of it from this point of view.

Yeah, yeah.

And get a unique perspective or offer to it.

But I think the strategy is there.

Let's talk about posting quantity versus quality and just content strategy.

Typically like you said, if salespeople are just promoting their product like you see a lot of people putting posts on there and it's all about their product or the service, that's probably not a good thing.

Instead we want to look at what's going to get my audience and take more of a broader approach.

Right.

And be authentic as well.

And it's got to be authentic.

And you Got to be transparent with it.

What about, you know, photos, personal things?

Should we always have a graphic that goes or a video?

Should we.

If we're not posting about a product all the time, can we post about a product?

Say we're doing, you know, post a week and what's the proper cadence?

Like how many should I be doing without annoying everybody?

And then what's the best time should I be posting?

And if it's in a subject matter like for instance, I'm in sales and marketing, right.

Becoming preferred.

I focus on all things becoming preferred.

So my umbrella is big.

My topics are varied because I'm under a bigger umbrella.

If I got down and started talking about just say niche marketing or a software solution, I run out of content really quick instead, what's the outcome I'm looking for?

So if it's say productivity, I could do productivity hacks all year on all different Productivity hacks or LinkedIn hacks or things to.

There are always something going around.

Yeah, yeah, there's always something going around.

Is there a strategy?

Quality versus quantity.

What do you recommend?

First thing first, obviously quality.

I think everyone will agree about it.

There is a certain cadence.

It's really depend on your goals.

Let's say that if you want to grow your networking, I would say post at least once in a week.

If you can do twice a week, even better.

But my go to tip is stop thinking about posting content and start thinking about sharing your thoughts.

That's a huge difference.

Share your thoughts rather than to try to post content.

Whenever people are trying to write a post a piece of content, it's authentic.

It sounds very vogue sometimes too, too well done.

I like to keep things low key, raw.

Sometimes I'm on my way to a lecture.

Okay, what happened to me during the lecture on the go.

It doesn't have to be that perfect.

This is what people want to see.

I'll give you a quick example.

I'm working with Samsung globally and one of the employees, he's such a great guy but he Never posted on LinkedIn before and I was trying to teach him to write posts and it didn't work.

And then he told me, but I don't mind to go on video.

It will be easier for me to speak about my expertise rather than to write about it.

Right, There you go.

He went every week to the conference room, he opened up the camera, Open teams or Zoom and recorded himself talking about phrases and trends and best practices.

For his realm of expertise, it was software or hardware development.

He got so much engagement from the right people.

And few weeks ago he told me, shea, you can't believe.

Ever since I started to post, I got to my company 648 CVS from people who want to work for us.

Moreover, he got invites to lecture in several places.

And this is the most introvert person you will ever meet.

He told me it helped me to build confidence.

So by posting in his form and the best way that suits him really worked for him.

So do whatever you feel comfortable with.

Don't post because Michael or Shay told you to post.

Share your thoughts if you have something to shake, to say.

That's a good one.

That's a good one.

Yeah, I just coined it.

Yeah, it's trending right now.

Hashtag something to shave now.

And you raise an interesting point.

So what you're saying, and I am guilty of this myself, is we're teachers.

Like, we're instructors.

We're teachers, we guide, we help people.

So let's say that I was going to be talking about target niche marketing, you know, and my subject is on niche.

Here's how you identify.

Or your icp.

Here's how you identify.

Blah, blah, blah.

Great.

You can do 1, 2, 3, or 4.

Yeah, yeah.

But what you're saying is maybe this month I'm going to talk about that, but then I'm going, here's been my experience in doing it.

So when I did this, here's what happened, but here's what I did to fix it.

So what you're saying is relate it from a personal point of view.

That's what the human aspect of it, not from an instructor point of view.

In other words, come from an adopting somebody who's on the journey with you.

In other words, take them with you on that.

Is that what you're.

I hear you saying, yeah, we haven't.

Discussed it yet, but I'm also a certified psychologist.

That's right.

That's where you went to school for.

That's right, yeah.

So I acquired my master's degree in social psychology.

Decision making.

Yeah.

Making your approaches, your tactics, your strategies suit people, rather than try to suit people and implement them to your tactics and strategies.

That's my approach.

That's what I'm trying to do.

And in order to do it, you have to be curious, you have to be patient, and you have to let people find their own way and path.

And referring to my story, from the beginning of our recording, I found myself the strength to pull myself out of this situation.

I got myself into.

I got the opportunity, I took myself with Two hands.

So I really like give people, I'm really trying to give them the tools and not the actual solution.

I'm doing it with my employees, I'm doing it with my students.

I'm really trying to make them be better professionals and not just hands on employees who just follow stuff that they should do.

You want to move it more into an experience.

And what's interesting on the decision making, because that's an area I focus on from sales, is we talk about emotion and logic and reason.

So the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex, right?

So what you're saying is when we're actually teaching, when we're actually teaching a principle that's going to go in, the amygdala sees it and goes, we don't know anything about this.

There's no emotional component to it sends it over to the prefrontal cortex or mainframe.

And now the mainframe is processing it.

But it's not connecting necessarily on an emotional basis.

Where if we want to hit a trigger, and I call them triggers, an emotional trigger, it.

It's something of value, there's something they can relate to.

A personal.

It's like, you know, my book, I've got a new book coming out and my editor comes back and goes, needs more you in here needs more personal stories.

Need more.

Where did you screw up?

Where did you fall out?

Where did you.

Instead of it being a lecture, all right, because we want to teach.

It's here's what I did, here's how it lends way more credibility to the solution than just the solution.

So you're saying humanize it, personalize it.

Treat it that way and also address it as.

Also as a business owner or a manager.

And why is that?

Because as a business manager or an owner, a boss, someone who's managing people, okay, this person came to me, he needs help.

Okay, solve the problem, we can go move forward.

But on the long run, he will keep coming to me.

I want to build him to find his own answers.

Holding back for a second, not telling him what he should or she do, but trying to actual get to his or her sense and making them in the future solve their own problems.

That's what's giving me a better business as well.

A functional business that can actually sustainably grow itself.

Because if I will be the teacher and the problem solver and the person that you came to me with this scenario and you got my perspective.

No, I want you to develop your own perspective because then it will allow you to grow, to develop and for me, as someone who most of my employees are four or five years already with me, it's also helping me to, to take myself out of the day to day operations and even the stage to lead.

And that's how you build a sustainable system.

How do you speaking of sustainability and systems.

So like I'm active and every day I get messages that come in and if we're using it as an outbound point of view, like I'm fairly reactive than I am proactive.

Just because we have enough leads and things that pop in, is there a way to manage that?

Are there some tools to manage those relationships?

Because within LinkedIn itself or Navigator, we can save them to lists, we can save our icp, we can have or we got premium, I get all that and then in they come, the inbox.

But as far as our sales process goes or an engagement process.

So I meet with you, I've connected with you, we're exchanging things back and forth and commenting.

How do I know where I'm at if I'm working hundreds of these?

How do I know where I'm at with you?

How do I know what should be my next step and when's my right time, where I should be going?

Assuming you're qualified that I should make a request that hey, maybe we should have a conversation, maybe we should have a face to face.

Is there a way you track all of those things like spreadsheet software, any.

Spreadsheets, but asking questions, that's the obviously the first thing.

There is one thing that you do that I was preparing to the podcast that I really, really like and is sending in personal videos.

I've been doing it for quite a bit.

If, let's say I spoke with one ICP few weeks ago and nothing really happened.

Surprising him with a personal video.

Going over his LinkedIn profile, his marketing efforts, his latest post.

Hey Michael, saw your last video.

I follow up our latest call.

Here's a tip to increase your engagement in your next one.

That's so valuable.

It took me a minute to record myself doing it.

It's less time than writing an email.

It's less cocky or too pushy than to bombard his dm.

Like there is someone, a salesperson that constantly chasing me at the emails right now and the more he's doing it day after day, it's antagonizing me.

And we discussed psychology earlier.

People want to purchase, they don't want to be sold, make them.

It's like when you go to a shop, you go to.

I don't know Zara, you go to, I don't know where you buy your clothes.

So the most annoying thing ever, you go to the store, the first thing happening to you, it's one of the nice ladies is jumping on you.

Hey, do you need any help?

No.

Wait a second.

Let me fill the clothes.

Let me see the price tags.

Let me give me.

Let's absorb the experience and make so the thing that I do.

And that's a really cool tip.

I'm retargeting with paid campaigns.

I'm promoting content, not paid ads like supermarket or leave your details, sign up or think.

I'm adding my icps to my remarketing lists.

So let's say you and I, we had a conversation.

Okay, perfect.

You haven't bought anything from me yet because we said earlier B2B it's a long term cycle.

Right now you'll be in my marketing list for always on paid compatible content.

I want you to think and know but by yourself that I'm the best in the market because you're seeing me all over.

So some people call it omnichannel approach, some people call it always on approach to remarketing.

I simply state it as being trustworthiness.

You want to be out there, you want to be top of mind and you want to be considered as the number one option the next time someone going back to the decision making position.

Let's unpack that just a little bit for our listeners.

So what you're saying under said it right is I've got my followers, we're talking, we're engaging.

I can actually create ads that retarget just specific people that are now my first connections or second connection.

You know, it's a little bit more complex than this.

I'm taking, I'm seeing in which company they're a part of.

I'm adding the company and their job title to my targeting list in LinkedIn Campaign Manager.

So that's one thing that I can do.

And then I know that they will see my next post over and over again.

Nurturing my list.

Yeah, exactly.

All the time.

And they call you when the opportunity's there and usually they'll call you if they know about you and they have awareness, they're going to ring out to you and that's why the keys ask the question and not be in too much of a hurry.

I think on that.

Let's talk about the ads part of it.

We're familiar with Facebook, Instagram, all the different ads.

A lot of comments I hear from other entrepreneurs is LinkedIn's very expensive.

The ROI wasn't there and they're obviously not doing it right because this is all that you focus on.

Address that a little bit.

What do they typically typically do wrong and what's the right approach?

Okay, that's a misconception.

Let's talk facts.

The average of all averages is 208 USD for leads for one lead.

That's the average of all of it.

Obviously it's very to do different.

200 for a lead.

Yeah.

Now if you compare it to Facebook or Google, obviously it's much more, but it's all you need to compare it to your products.

How much are you selling?

If you had a $30,000 solution, 200 bucks is nothing.

Yeah.

Even if you need 10 leads, which is already 2,000 and something USD for one campaign, if you got one clients from it, it's nice for you.

And then I ask my client how long usually a client sticking with you.

We are B2B in B2B clients sticking with their providers for years.

So it's worked, it's long lasting.

But the main two mistakes that people actually do, they rush to leads too early and they're not diversifying the creatives that they're using.

So my approach is to use thought leadership ads promoting people from your company posts that you can do only on LinkedIn, by the way, the thought leadership ads promoting videos, promoting articles, promoting single image content that you already posted in your page, then remarket it to your most interested Personas and only after try to send them a message or a lead form.

Whenever you're working step after step, you're seeing up to six times more conversions and up to 30% more less in ad spend.

And Michael, it's working phenomenally.

I usually with most of our clients, I'm not even reaching to the third part of the funnel and the budgets are much lower.

So don't rush to leads too fast because I saw so many companies and startups getting burned out of it.

And try to diversify your content because eventually people buying from people.

And if you're not promoting content and you're only promoting those type of generic graphics, nobody, people are blind to it.

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Let's talk about navigating the algorithm.

You keep hearing different people talking about, okay, let's do a post or they join a pod of 20 other people.

They post on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday and then all 20 people within two hours go and comment on it.

And does that really do anything or is the algorithm figured that one out and Going okay.

They're just trying to.

Yeah.

LinkedIn is tracking it.

They know that you're using it.

They will get to you eventually.

I saw so many cases of really good people that LinkedIn is not playing around.

They will close your account pods.

I wouldn't recommend to use it.

I would use internal pod like not an automated one like open up a Slack channel or a WhatsApp group.

Ask your teammates to comment on your post.

It will give you the enough boost to get things going.

Also I'm also letting my employees tracking their own metrics on LinkedIn.

We have a metric scorecard and they seeing their growth and it's really giving them the enough motivation to keep moving forward and eventually I'm always trying to measure my LinkedIn success.

Not about the amount of likes, comments, shares or impressions that I get, about the amount of private messages that I get.

And you'll see me, I have 10,000 something or more followers that don't even count.

I got 5,000, 6,000 impressions per.

I don't care about it.

Eventually I want money in the bank.

And money in the bank is coming from communication from people who actually reached out because they found me enough valuable and insightful and they want to keep on the connection meet.

So I'm measuring my LinkedIn success, my ROL return on LinkedIn by the amount of messages that I'm getting in my inbox.

Yeah.

And opportunities and sales.

We do the same thing in podcasts where you know, the listenings, the downloads, the whatever.

Great.

But at the end of the day, do we make good relationships?

Are we finding this is expensive?

Yeah.

You want tangible results.

Yep.

It's how much is going into the bank account?

It's got to be a means to an end and to take care of it.

Last question for you.

Is there best times to post as far as.

And there's a couple things and I think these are good little tips.

Like I just know what we do.

We post for instance podcast every day.

We do snippets of the episode that go out and get taking it.

But when we schedule our posts so we use a scheduling system in order to do it.

But we also if there's an outside link, we don't put any outside of links inside of a LinkedIn post because LinkedIn doesn't like it when you take them off the platform.

They changed it.

So you can do that now.

Not only that, you can they also recommend it because you can now see in your personal profile analytics how many people clicked on your third party link.

Yeah.

Do want to use at the moment.

This is the latest update.

You do want to use links in your post.

That's the first thing.

And back to the beginning of your question.

The best time to post is whenever you can be engaging back with the comments and the likes and the stuff that you're getting.

So always say it's 50% of writing, producing your content and 50% distributing it.

Because if you're posting something, scheduling, forget about it, it won't last.

But if you're posting something and within the first two golden hours you will.

I got a comment from Michael.

I'll comment back, I'll send it in a Slack channel, be active in distributing it, you'll see much better results.

So yeah, it will kind of growth hacking for the algorithm, but it's working.

You want to create discussions and conversations and as a last tip, try to open up your post for discussions.

Just don't use statements or anything.

Don't just try to be the most valuable and thoughtful person out there.

Use the vast majority of people on LinkedIn to hear their thoughts, their perspectives.

Two weeks ago I posted the question a client asked me if I'm going to decrease my pricing due to the usage of AI.

I posted about it, what my network think about it.

I got so many comments, so many perspectives, I learned from it.

So it was a really nice trial to see how people are reacting to different types of questions.

So basically what I'm hearing you say is, and when we do our posts, write it as if it's going to that one particular person and ask them the question as if you were sitting right across from them and you were exchanging emails or dialogue instead of writing to a group of people, to that individual and hey, what's your take on that?

I'd love to hear your take on that.

Here's your feeling, but set time aside.

So when you do post, if you're posting at 11 o' clock on a Thursday, get the post out there, but then be ready to sit around and answer the and engage back because LinkedIn loves the engagement.

And then what you're saying, like what we used to do to get around the link issue is we would put the link in the first comment and then just pin the first comment to do it.

But you're saying it doesn't matter anymore, we can just put that link in and take care of it there.

No, that's great advice.

Any last suggestions?

Time.

Boy, we've really gone into our time.

Here, but this is my, my one last thing.

You know the story about Alice In Wonderland, right?

Yeah.

So Alice is going around the woods.

All of a sudden she gets sucked to the core of the earth.

She's going through some psychedelic experiences.

She meeting this creepy cat and the Queen of hearts.

Then she go out the second side of the woods.

The same goes with us.

We scroll through LinkedIn or any other platform and all of a sudden we get sucked into a hook.

Something that hooked us, lured us in and now we have 10 seconds, 20 seconds of someone else's attention.

In few moments we're going to get out to the.

We're going to keep scrolling.

Alice in Wonderland is my way of checking if my post got any value.

I'm asking myself, did I made someone laugh?

Did I teach something new to someone?

Alice in Wonderland is my way of thinking that after I drew someone in, I want to make sure that his experience by reading my post, he's getting something out of it value, a laugh, something emotional, something he didn't know before.

So this one is my go to way to measure and check if my content is worth a while.

Not every post, but most of them I'm trying to measure them.

No, it's a good focus and go from there.

This was absolutely amazing.

Did you go by Shay or Shy?

I heard you say shy but I've been calling you Shay.

Do you have a preference?

The actual one in Israel it's shy but the way that people are usually read it, it's Shay and I'm used to it.

And also Shay, you're a Canadian.

So Shay Gilgis Alexander is giving me a really good way that the way he pronounced his name from the NBA.

So I'm sticking with Shay.

It's a really nice one when I'm stay with Shay.

It's a good way to do it.

Excellent.

Hey, well, thanks for doing this.

The website is team maya.com Maia.com will have all their information in the show Notes.

Companies can reach out to you and I know you work with some great brands, whether it's LinkedIn, ads, company page management, personal training, resources, profile optimization, thought leadership, employer branding, you name it, you guys cover it all.

And you're a great boutique and you got some great customers and clients and obviously you know what you're talking about.

Thanks so much for being our guest today.

Thank you.

Michael, as you are listening to this episode, what is one idea that you've heard that has caught your attention and why does it matter so much to you and who is one person who you can share that with, either sharing this episode or just sharing that insight that occurred to you while you were listening.

Perhaps it is learning to shift your LinkedIn profile from a traditional resume to a client focused lead generation tool.

Or, when reaching out to new connections, avoid pitching immediately and start offering genuine value.

Thank you for listening, for learning, and for investing in yourself so that you can become the best version of you.

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Until next time.

This podcast is created and associated with Summit Media.

My Executive producer is Beth Smith and Director of Research, Tori Smith.

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Goodbye.